Agency Forward

Chris DuBois 0:00
Hey everyone. Today I'm joined by Dr William Attaway. William is the founder of catalytic leadership, where he provides executive coaching and helps agency founders become stronger leaders. William and I have recorded multiple podcasts and done events together, man and every time I leave with just awesome takeaways. He's a genuinely great guy and has an awesome perspective and insights on improving your leadership that you don't want to miss. In this episode, we discuss what mindset shifts agency founders should adopt for better leadership, why leaders should question their leadership style, how agency founders can leverage their long term vision and more. Today's episode is brought to you by Zen pilot. There are lots of tools out there for agencies to manage projects, but any project issues aren't usually caused by the tool. They're from your own processes. Zen pilot helps agencies implement their project management tools while streamlining operations so your team can move from chaos to clarity. You can see for yourself at Zen pilot.com/forward, and now. Dr William Attaway, it's easier than ever to start an agency, but it's only getting harder to stand out and keep it alive. Join me as we explore the strategies agencies are using today to secure a better tomorrow. This is agency forward. So what makes a great leader? You

Speaker 1 1:31
know, that's such a great question. I think that leadership is so often misunderstood, Chris, that people look at leadership and they think about a title. They think about the the name on the door. They think about the one who gets to tell everybody what to do. Leadership is, is way more than that. I believe leadership is not about getting things done. I believe leadership is about getting things done through other people. When, when you were a high performing individual, an individual contributor, right? It was about getting things done, but when you step into a leadership role now, it's about pouring into and investing in the people that you lead so that they will accomplish more. It's about pouring into them and helping them understand that you are there to serve, to equip, to resource them so that the team can accomplish more, that is one of the most powerful and beautiful parts of leadership. So what makes a great leader? Somebody who gets that, somebody who's not about just trying to make everybody do what they think they should do, but about seeing the bigger picture, and about focusing on what you can accomplish by empowering and equipping people to reach their capacity.

Chris DuBois 2:44
All right? So love the answer. I want to get into mindset shifts like a little later in the episode, but I think this is probably the biggest mindset shift right for leader, for agency founders, to make, especially most of the ones that I've talked to right have that issue with control, and just like, they want to either micromanage or get in like and it just it feels natural to kind of maintain that. So how do you go about helping them shift their mindset so that you know they actually don't want to hold that much control. They want to be able to let their team kind of flourish and explore these ideas and everything.

Speaker 1 3:21
Well, you're exactly right that it is a mindset shift. You know, I talk about the shift with a with this image. When you start an agency, you start and you're doing everything right. Everything connects to you. Everything comes across your desk. You have to make the decisions as you find success. You have to hire other people to help you with fulfillment, because you simply don't have enough hours in the day to get it all done anymore. As you hire people, they start to look to you to lead. And then you have a choice. And this is the this is the catalytic moment, so to speak, when you have to choose, are you going to continue to be the center of the spotter web, where every strand connects to you. Are you going to continue to be the roadblock everybody has to pass in order to get anything done? Or are you going to choose not to be in the center of the spotter Web? Are you going to choose to build an organizational structure and systems so that people are empowered and equipped, that you give them not just responsibility, but you give them authority. When you do that, all of a sudden, now you're not the sender anymore. People are able to get things done without coming to you. One of the best ways to begin to make that shift is to start asking a question when people approach you, when they come to you, say, hey, what do you think about this? Hey, can you help me decide? Hey, can you know they come to you, they start asking the questions. The number one question that I use with my teams is they, hey, what do you think?

Unknown Speaker 4:54
What do you think

Speaker 1 4:56
if I wasn't here? What would you do now? I want them to understand that I have faith and trust that they're going to make wise choices, but I've got to show them that by not answering all the questions for them. If I'm the answer, man, then they're going to continue to lean into that. That's how they're going to operate. That's the system that we are allowing. I want to create something way better than that. Yeah,

Chris DuBois 5:24
I agree entirely on the method. I was kind of hadn't really thought through the process for that, but it's what I did when I was in the army, where my soldiers would bring me something I just wanted them to take ownership of more, and and so they would bring me a pacer, what do you think about this or this? I don't know. What do you guys think about it? And they would, like, debate amongst themselves and get like, right? That sounds like a great answer. Let's try it. Yes, yes. And then we would go explore. And maybe it didn't work, maybe it did. Maybe I'd ask it more, you know, another question, because I was like, Oh, wait, hang on, that won't work. It's like, let's think a little differently, but yeah, that was, like, the approach that worked the most for me.

Speaker 1 6:05
And sometimes they're gonna come and you're gonna say, hey, what do you think? And they're gonna come back with an incredibly stupid answer, yeah, let's just be honest. Like, sometimes that's gonna happen. You're gonna be like, and you got to control your face and control your emotions. I'll be like, What? No, you know. Hey, you know what I get. Why you would say that I see, I see where you're coming from. Let me help you understand how I think and how we do it here and now. You get to coach them. Now you get to God, let me help you understand how we do it here and now going forward. The next time they're in a similar situation, they have that information.

Chris DuBois 6:45
So a quick short story that you just reminded me of from when I was in the army, I was basic training, like company commander for infantry training, and we're at the top of the rappel tower, and a kid passed out up there, and so I looked at two of the drill sergeants, said, Hey, we got to get them down right. So them down right so the medics can take care of them. And then I went back to doing what I was doing, and I look over and they're peeking over the edge, looking at the mat below. And I could tell they're calculating to see if they could toss them and land them on the mat. Hold up. We're going to lower them down. Okay, you could see the disappointment on their faces, but the kid made it down safely. So when you bring up, yeah, sometimes our ideas are going to be stupid. Yes, 100% haven't seen anything like that in the agency world, though, fortunately,

Unknown Speaker 7:38
but yeah, metaphorically, maybe.

Chris DuBois 7:45
So I guess with this, like, everyone comes in with their own, like leadership style right there, and you're kind of learning, especially for agency founders like you, became the leader of that organization because you started the company, not necessarily because you necessarily because you have any more leadership training or you have any skills that they don't have. It's just you were the first one there. And so it doesn't necessarily mean you're in the best position to lead everyone, and that's why you need to bring an expert. It's actually focus on developing your leadership now, one of the things you recommend is continuously questioning your leadership style. How do you recommend that agency founders go about that, especially if they don't necessarily have the kind of like pre built skills and like foundation to lead? I

Speaker 1 8:36
think it starts with understanding that leadership is a skill, just like anything else you know, it's, it's really not all that much different than learning SEO or learning you know, like coding, like you know, it's a skill you have to learn. Nobody's born knowing those things. Leadership's the same way. And when we understand that it's a skill that can and should be developed, it's going to change our posture, because we understand that we can always get better. We have to understand that experience does not make you any better. Evaluated. Experience is what makes you better. And so you've got to constantly be evaluating and asking, Hey, what went right this week? What can I celebrate? What are the wins? What what didn't go right? Where did I swing and miss? And how would I do it different next time? If we're walking through those questions week in week out as part of our weekly review, then we are evaluating the leadership decisions and choices that we make, and that's going to help us to improve as leaders. We all start in the same place, Chris, we all start as new, emerging leaders. And at the beginning, we really just copy other leaders. We copy people that we've admired, people that we've learned from, maybe people that we've worked for, or people that we've learned from, from afar. And that's normal at the beginning when you copy and kind of mimic other leaders. The problem is we. You stay there, when you stay there and you don't develop, and you don't evaluate and you don't get better, then eventually all you end up becoming is a bad copy of a great leader. You're not leaning into your own wiring. And this is one of the things I talk about a lot, because I believe it's important you have unique wiring as a leader. I do too, when you understand how you are wired, you can lean into that and stop trying to be something that you're not. I talked to way too many leaders who are using the word should, well, I should be more like, well, I should be able to, okay. You need to stop that. You need to understand how you're wired and lean into that when you discover that, then you're going to be evaluating with the right metrics. You're going to stop trying to think you should be more like someone else, and start to understand what your development path looks like, what your growth plan should be,

Chris DuBois 10:55
right? Yeah, I think there's something to be said. Like, you can go copy Steve Jobs, right? But, like, Steve Jobs, yeah, he was a visionary and stuff, but he wasn't necessarily the nicest person, right? One of the reasons he was able to kind of stay there, and I mean, he even was out for a bit, right, came back. But people were part of this larger vision, and they knew they had all these benefits and all of, like, everything that came with being part of a big company. You can't do that with an agency, right? Like, if you're bullying people and scolding everybody, they're just gonna leave. Like, yes, your company isn't that great and so. So copying people like, doesn't take into account all of these different variables that that you need to which your team's going to be different, your mission's going to be different, your every the situation is entirely different for you. And so like, why don't you lean into your strengths? Yeah. Like, I agree entirely. I've also seen a lot of leaders who pick a style, and this is how I lead, and they just go into every opportunity every organization the same exact way, and then they get different results every time, right? Because not they don't account for those variables to like you can still be you and still shift how you're doing things to find you know the best result. So I guess there's when you talk like continuously questioning, are there any methods, tactics, things that you you try to deploy for these leaders to make sure that they are like constantly improving themselves?

Speaker 1 12:29
You know, I think the weekly reviews the secret sauce there, because you're evaluating every week, you're looking at where, where the wins were, and you want more of those. You get more of what you focus on. I want more wins, personally, for myself, for the business that I lead, I want more wins, so I'm going to focus there. First say, Where do I need to pour some some gasoline on the fire? Get more of that. And then I'm going to look at where I swung and missed, and start thinking through, okay, wow. What happened there? And how would I do it different next time, when you walk through that evaluative process, you will begin to see areas for change and growth only happens on the other side of change. If you think you have I got this figured out. This is how I'm gonna do it. I'm never gonna change. That's just a refusal to change, which means it's a refusal to grow. You're not gonna get better. In fact, I believe you're going to get worse because stasis exists only in a laboratory. You're either growing and getting better, or you're going the other direction. I prefer to be intentional and choose to grow and get better. I recommend it highly. Yeah,

Chris DuBois 13:35
I think, I think most people will back you on that one. So let's talk some of the limiting beliefs of agency founders. Now I just started exploring this more because I kept hearing the same things coming up in conversations where I can't leave right because nothing's going to get done, like everything has to go through me, because the result isn't going to be what we expect. What are some of those limiting beliefs that you continuously see? And I guess, what? Which ones are the most dangerous? What are the or, let's just, let's go, let's explore.

Speaker 1 14:11
Yeah, you know, I think you keyed in on a big one there. You know that if I don't do it, it won't be done well, that excellence only happens when I touch it, and when I hear that or recognize words that point that direction, I'm always going to zero in there. Because what's at the root of this? A couple things. One, it could be ego, right? Let's just be honest, it could be ego, and you're thinking way more highly of yourself than you ought to. You know, do you bring nothing but excellence every time you touch anything, really, yeah, me, that's, that's how you operate, like, dive in there. That's amazing. I doubt that's true, but it's, it's amazing, if it is. Remember, your job, though, as the leader is not to get things done. Your job as a leader is to get things done through other people. You. So if you're the only one who can do it that, well, that tells me that you haven't taught your people yet. You haven't delegated and equipped them. So now we have a different problem, right? Maybe, maybe it's not so much ego as it is just you haven't been intentional about pouring into your team. You have what you tolerate. And so if you have a system where you're the only one that can do it right, that's because that's what you've tolerated. It's time to tolerate something different. It's time to change, and by learning to delegate, you overcome that belief. Because now I'm going to, hey, I want you to come. I want you to come with me. I want you to watch me do this. I want to I want you to do this with me. Now I'm going to watch you do it, and now you're going to do it. I'm going to step back, take my hands off. You walk through that process enough times. What you've learned is that, hey, you know what. They can do it. I heard one of my mentors say one time that if somebody else can do something 80% as well as you can, you need to let them do it and take your hands off. When I first heard that, I pushed back hard. I was like 80% Come on, man, that's like a C, like a C level. Work, really. That's what, that's what we're after. No, not No, a it's got to be 100% okay, really, because they're not you, and they don't know yet you got to start where they are, not where you think they should be. And so if, if I see them operating at an 80% level, I need to let them do it and then coach them and equip them to get that number up. But if I think I'm the only one who can, I will never do that. I'll just keep doing it. And as long as you do it, you're at the center of the spider web, and that limiting belief will keep you from scaling and growing 100% of the time, you will never grow beyond a certain point, because you are the limiting factor.

Chris DuBois 16:54
Two ideas I want to explore from this so something we had played with, and I don't know who created this concept, but it was the 1080, 10 kind of idea, where the leader provides that 10% initial guidance so that, you know, the team can do the 80% when they bring it back. Yeah, you might have to do some tweaks, but it's 10% so now you get to go spend your time, you know, focus on those really just given the clear guidance making sure everyone has what they need, and then just checking it before it goes out, rather than building everything. It was like, awesome idea. Worked great for us. But the other one I love that you use the word tolerate, because long ago, I had been told by someone again, man, I need to start writing down when people tell me smart things, like, I need to just like, jot it somewhere that you can't change what you tolerate, yeah. And so, like, you have to find the dissatisfaction in whatever you want to change, otherwise you're just going to keep dealing with it and and I think that's one of those things that right with agency founders, it's like, you keep you're going to keep telling yourself the story of, like, yeah, I have to be there. I have to be doing it, but you are tolerating it, and so it's not going to change because you're willing to put up with that stress and like it, it almost becomes the status quo for you now, it's really hard to shift out of it, because you're like, that's just the way it is. Yeah, it's like, how do we break free of that?

Speaker 1 18:20
You know, I was working with a client, this has been almost two years ago now, who owns an agency, and decided to take some time off, and he came back after a month, and it was, in his words, a dumpster fire. Everything was, everything was on fire or just going south. I mean, nothing was healthy, nothing was good. And he was just, he was he was just in turmoil. Really, I can never take time off again. I'll never be able to do this. I'll never get the freedom. Most people start a business or an agency because they're after one or more of three things they want, financial freedom, time freedom and location freedom, right? At least one of those, most often more than one. Well, he's he's running into this saying, Well, I guess I'll never have that Tom freedom. I guess I'll never have location freedom, really, because maybe you just need a different system. So we start working together. And this last year. So about a year later, based on the work that we had been doing and the growth that he had been pursuing, he was able to take not one but three months out of the country, and his business was stronger when he got back than when he left. Okay, how'd that happen? Magic that just happened to circumstance. No, that was hard work, that was intentional effort that was put in. His business is larger today than it's ever been. He saw growth there because he chose it. You get to choose you're the owner, you're the founder. You get to choose this. You can. Have that. But it's not just going to happen. You're not going to wake up one day and magically it has appeared. You have to pursue it. It. It deals. It deals with the team members that you hire. Can they be trusted the team members that you hire? Are they aligned with how you do things? Right? Are you equipping and empowering them? It really starts there. Once you build those systems correctly, once you build your operations in such a way that you're not the center of the spotter web, Katie bar the door, because now you've set yourself up to scale and grow. But if you don't, you have what you tolerate, right?

Chris DuBois 20:39
So what are some of the other I guess, mindset shifts that you would recommend agency founders kind of adopt so that they can put themselves in a better position. One

Speaker 1 20:53
of the one of the biggest ones I see is a lack of focus in agency world. Man, things are changing all the time, like we are constantly seeing new, greater, better. Shiny objects are everywhere. They litter the landscape, right? And oh, if we just, oh, if we just add this to our portfolio of services, if we just, man, if we just do this, this is going to be the game changer. This is going to get us to the next level. If we just learn this, if we add this, if I hire this person, this will be the this software package, this will be the game changer. I hear it all the time. It's everywhere. One of the things that I work with clients on is establishing what I call clear minded focus. And what I mean by that is I want to be able to define two points very, very clearly. The first point is, where do you want to be? Where do you want to be? I want to paint that picture with as many colors and brushes as we possibly can. I want there to be so much clarity that you can see it, smell it, and taste it. Once we paint that picture of where you want to be with your business and you personally where you fit in that business. Now we're going to define the second point. Where are you today? And I want to paint that picture with as many colors and brushes as we can. Now, most often, Chris, people struggle with one of those two points with a lack of clarity. They either tell me where they want to be. Well, I want to be, you know, this level of MRR, I want to be, you know, you know, 120,000 MRR, great. Okay, that's a specific goal. But what exactly does that mean for you? What does that mean for you? Are you driving all that? Are you focusing on, like a sales your baby? Are you doing fulfill like I need to know. I need to paint the picture. So we have to clarify both of those points. Where are you today? Oh, well, I don't really like to look at the numbers. You'd be shocked off and I hear that you're the founder. Nobody else is going to look at this like you look at it. Nobody else is going to see what you see. And you have to know exactly where you are, right? Once we define those two points, then it's simply a matter of building a bridge from here to there. Building the bridge is the easy part, right? Defining the two points, that's where the hard work comes in. So I see a major limiting belief right there, because most people do not have those two points clearly identified, which means they are susceptible to distraction and distraction, we want to blame everything external. We want to blame these little pieces of plastic in our pockets, right? We want to blame our phones. Ah, is all the distractions? Ah, notifications? Ah, yeah. You know what the source of most of your distractions are between your ears.

Chris DuBois 23:38
Yeah. Is it? Man? What's he call it? So Napoleon Hill, Love him or hate him, but the definiteness of purpose being able to have that sole focus, and so I kind of took I was exploring his practices, and every night, before bed, I would recite the same purpose that I had for myself. And like, your subconscious starts going to work, and you start having all of these different ideas around the specific target. But I realized that I would, like, pick up my phone and be like, I don't need this right now. Like, I don't want to do this, right I have a focus, like, I'm actually going to do these things. And so it is crazy if you can just find the right focus. And I think, yeah, your exercise of understanding where you want to go and where you are with such clarity that, like, you can see it, right? Like, it's like watching a movie, yeah, you can make a map to go anywhere. Like, if you know you can connect the dots, right? That's, that's the easy part. Yeah, finding where those dots are definitely the challenge, but probably the most worthwhile thing that someone can do

Speaker 1 24:41
well, and I love what you said there, that you know when you would pick up your phone like, oh, no, no, this isn't, this isn't where I want to be right now. Man, that's focus, because once you get a clear picture of where you are and where you want to be, anything else you begin to recognize, oh, that's not getting me from here to there. You. That's not part of this path. That's something No, no, I'm not time for that right now. I clearly see where I need to go. Once you have that kind of clarity, clarity is kindness. Clarity is kindness with your team members. Clarity is kindness with your clients. Clarity is kindness most with yourself. When you have that kind of clarity, nothing will stop you.

Chris DuBois 25:24
Yeah, I was just actually talking to some of a friend in the agency space. But we're talking about Brendon burchards book high performance habits, and one of them is, seek clarity, right? The highest performers are continuously seeking clarity in all they do. And like, this is a study of 1000s of people who are just qualified them. What do you use for the qualifications? But like, these are high performers. These are all people who are at the top of their game being interviewed, and one of the common habits was seeking clarity. And so like, yeah, there's tons of value to that. So I guess seeking clarity is probably probably the good answer to this question. So I'm going to challenge you to come up with a different answer the if there was like, one thing that you would recommend agency founders are doing today in order to kind of establish a stronger foundation that they can actually build their agency on right something with within their skill set. What would that recommendation be

Speaker 1 26:28
when you understand where you want to go with your business and in your own life as the leader, when you understand, hey, I really want to build something that's not a lifestyle business that's centered around me. I really want to build something that's that's going to scale and grow, that is going to change every thing in your business, and the only way you're going to know what to change is through evaluation. One of the the best tools that any agency owner can leverage is to do a weekly review. This is a this is a habit that I teach. I learned so much about this from David Allen, through his getting things done, work, his corpus of material, with that. That is a habit I have practiced for decades. And the reason that I do that is because I want to continually grow and improve, and the only way I know what to change is through evaluation. Everybody listening can do this, every single one of you. You can leverage a weekly review process so that you know what to pour gas on, what's working, where the winds are, and what needs to adapt and change that understanding and discerning the difference between those two things is key when you leverage that, that single tool that could be a game changer. What I want to do, and what I do as a coach, is I help agency owners. I help founders to understand and see the things that they can't see. I help them to look from an outside perspective. You can't see the whole picture when you're in the frame. And I mean, Chris, this is why I've had coaches for decades. This is why I have coaches now who helped me to see what I can't see in my own business. I help other people, but you can't see it when you're in it. And this is what I believe every founder needs. You need an outside perspective as part of your evaluative process. You can only see what you can see. You need people to help you see from a different, different perspective. So the weekly review the evaluative process, I think that is the secret sauce, and every single one of your listeners can leverage this, starting today.

Chris DuBois 28:37
Yeah. So speaking of listeners, they'll probably be annoyed for me bringing this up again, but the this is called Solomon's paradox, where King, Solomon, right, super wise king, was able to help tons of other people, but couldn't solve his own problems. It happens with all of us. Literally every single person. How many agencies have bad websites. It's like you're a web development agency. Like that doesn't make sense, right? Like, why are you you're an SEO agency? Why are you not ranking number one here? Because you're not taking your own advice. And so, like, find those experts, bring them in. Yes, it's all great. Yeah, personally, I'm going to add the just another layer. I do a weekly review preview where I just look at all of the meetings that I had for the week. What do I still need to action? Like, what you know? What do I need to make sure it doesn't slip through the cracks? What's coming up next week? But I think adding that one step of like, where are those wins that I do want to pour the gas on? Yeah, that's super easy to add. But, yeah, I see tons of value that that can bring to the business.

Speaker 1 29:44
I'll tell you, if you really want to take it to a different level. This, this sounds so simple, but this is, this is big. Write them down. Keep a separate journal, specifically around wins. Uh, write them down, and over time, what you build as a knowledge base. And Chris, as you, as you have those days that we all have. And everybody, everybody who's in the entrepreneurial space will understand what I'm about to say, like we all have those days when we struggle. We all have those days when we begin to wonder, can I can I really do this? Is this really gonna work? Is this really am I gonna get to that next level? Am I gonna achieve the things that I really, I think are possible, but God needs to be working right now, like when you have those moments, you have to understand those feelings are valid, they're real, and you have to acknowledge that. But then the very next thing I do is say, okay, that's real, that's valid, but what does the data say? And then I pull out my wins journal, and then I'm going to begin to walk through and read what I have written down in weeks and months and years past. And what this does neurologically is it actually changes your brain chemistry because you begin re celebrating those wins. Oh yeah, oh, I forgot about that. Oh, oh yeah, oh look, oh yeah, oh yeah. You actually begin to change your brain chemistry, and as you begin to do that, you begin to reinforce confidence. Oh yeah, it worked in I can do Yeah, yeah, this is gonna work, yeah, yeah. And you're changing it from the inside out, but having that knowledge base, that data set, that in your wins journal, that's the secret.

Chris DuBois 31:37
Yeah, you just hit me with another thing. I got it. So the start of this year, I got a planner, and every day I add in, like, little daily slot in that month, I add, what are my wins for the day? I just do that, slap it down. So now, you know, we're recording this September 3. Like, I've got eight months of wins racked up in there, but I have yet to go back and use those, like, I've gotten the habit of just, like, looking for my wins, and I find myself through the day being like, that one's going in tonight, right? Like, yeah, and so that's positive, but I yeah, I think in those moments of, like, doubt, being able to go back and be like, No, look at all this awesome stuff you did, right? Like, that's especially looking at it from the outside, like it's, you're putting yourself in like, that second person, right? Like you're doing great, like, good work. Keep it up. Yeah, that can go a long way.

Speaker 1 32:28
Yeah, it's so fascinating to me to watch what you how what you focus on can affect so many things in your life. I want to see more wins, so I'm going to focus on that. I'm going to celebrate those things. This is what I do with my clients. I tell them they are not going to have a bigger cheerleader than me, right? Because when they win, I win. When I see them celebrating, I'm like, Yes, I had a client this year who we just crossed the one year market working together, and he started when we when he started last year, he was at a seven figure level for his agency. And this year we're doing evaluation, and he's at multiple seven figures. I said, Hey, man, this is this is great. What a celebration. I love this, and I'm celebrating with it. Jerry Damon, and we've been watching this over the year. And I said, you know, we're at the the end of our one year commitment together. I said, you know it's up to you if you want to continue, but just know, man, I'm so excited for what has already happened, and I'm celebrating that with you. And he laughed, and he said, well, on earth would I stop? And I love that, because he's seeing so much value from the choices that he's making you get to choose. I've got a new book coming out in January called the catalytic mindset, and that's the subtitle. You get to choose. You get to choose your mindset. You get to choose that nobody else will choose it for you to because no one else can. I want you to choose a healthy one.

Chris DuBois 34:00
Yeah, I am. I've been excited for that book to come out since you first mentioned it to me, and so publishers, Come on, pick it up. Come on, William, this is a another great conversation. I've got two more questions for you, and this one has a little bit of a caveat, because you have a book coming out, so you can't use this one. But what book would you recommend? Every agency founder read

Speaker 1 34:32
atomic habits is the first one that comes to mind. And I know that's one that everybody's talking about, and has been since it came out, really. But I think what James clear does in that book is really boil so much down to very practical steps and illustrates that, you know, you don't have to, like, take a month long journey to the mountains of Tibet, you know, to come up with your plan that will then take you through the next 20 years. It's about the. The habits and the micro habits that you change that have incredible results over time, because change compounds, growth compounds, and I think clear, does a phenomenal job in that book. I'll give you a bonus one, and I've already mentioned it. This was David Allen's book, getting things done this. This book revolutionized the way I think about productivity, and it changed how I do what I do every single day. It helped me to understand that what you do every day needs to align with where you want to be in three years, in five years, and if it doesn't, then you are going to feel that lack of alignment internally, and it's going to feel really bad. And this is where so many people are, it becomes like, wow, it didn't feel like I'm making progress as because you're not aligning your day to day with your long term goals, or even your short term when you learn to align that, man, I'll tell you it. It has revolutionized what I do and how I do it?

Chris DuBois 36:01
Yeah, this conversation has made me rethink everything. I have to go back and just make sure I am aligned on my bigger vision. Last question, Where can people find

Speaker 1 36:15
you? You can find me on LinkedIn. I do a lot over there. I do monthly webinars around leadership mindset and productivity topics, specifically in the entrepreneurial and agency space. So I'd love to connect with your listeners. There. You can find out more about everything else I'm doing@catalyticleadership.net including the podcast that I host that you've been on. Chris, yeah,

Chris DuBois 36:35
everyone should check out all of your resources. Catalytic leadership podcast is awesome. It's one of my my go to listens, and so I recommend that for everyone else. So, but, uh, yeah, William, thanks for joining and thanks

Speaker 1 36:51
for having me. I so enjoy every time we talk, Chris, I always walk away learning something. So thank you for today. Yeah, we're

Chris DuBois 36:57
gonna start having, like, a like creating a binge bank of just content that we're doing together. So this is good. I love it.

That's the show everyone. You can leave a rating and review, or you can do something that benefits. You click the link in the show notes to subscribe to agency forward on substack, you'll get weekly content, resources and links from around the internet to help you drive your agency forward. You.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai