Agency Forward

Chris DuBois 0:00
Hey everyone, today I'm joined by Chris Bogue. Chris is a writer and video coach. He merges sales strategies with sketch comedy to help professionals really just better communicate on camera, and a lot of his content is hilarious. Chris specializes in an improv based approach to content creation, and has loads of short form video that you can view for examples. I mean, I love his approach to content creation, so it's giving viewers like this experience that's more than just a video. So I wanted to learn more about this approach, and Chris was gracious enough to join us in this episode, we discuss how to use humor to make video content more engaging and memorable. Tips for generating original and compelling content ideas, effective ways to balance comedy with a clear sales message and more. Hiring in the agency world is rough. Most job posting sites will give you lots of applicants, but with their easy applying options, most of those are unqualified, and worse, they don't understand what it's like working at an agency. This is why I created the agency job hub. You can post your positions for free to find applicants looking specifically for agency work, and we already have a growing list of candidates who'll be notified as soon as you post. So you can list your open positions for free at agency, jobhub.com, and now please welcome. Chris Bogue, it's easier than ever to start an agency, but it's only getting harder to stand out and keep it alive. Join me as we explore the strategies agencies are using today to secure a better tomorrow. This is agency forward. What led you to mix sales with sketch comedy?

Speaker 1 1:51
Mixing sales in sketch comedy was kind of an accident. I actually had not been doing any comedy for years. It had been about three or four years since I had done my last live show, and prior to this, I was not doing any comedy on video. I was doing everything on stage, often I was not even in the show. I was the writer and I was the director, and I was writing for ensemble of actors, right? So I decided I want to start teaching people about sales, specifically how to do it on video. So I'm like, Well, no one's gonna hire me as the video guy. I don't have video content out there. So I started making video content about stuff like how to cold call. And I would have these little cutaways where I'm like, here's how you don't cold call. And then it would be a different version of me, it would be like a very klutzy, nervous version of me on the phone with a very impatient VP of sales, also played by me. And the scene would just play out for a second and would cut back to me as the narrator, like explaining what was going on. And I started serving my audience, anybody who clicked the like button. I was a new content creator, so I would send them a DM just being like, Hey, Chris, appreciate you clicking the like button on my video. Let me know if there was anything that stuck out. And everybody said the same thing. They were like that moment where you cut away and it was you on the phone talking to that really angry version of you. I liked that. I thought that was funny. Do more of that. And it was surprising to me, because I had thought I was selling to quote, unquote, serious people, right? Not the drunks that hang out in comedy clubs in Chicago that I'm used to doing shows for. These are VPs of sales. These are people at the executive level. These people with titles like Chief Revenue Officer, right? They don't want entertainment. They just want to sit around thinking about revenue all day. That's what I thought. But they were uniformly all in agreement that they liked the sketch comedy, they liked the character work. The more entertainment I put into the feed, the more inbounds I would get, the more coaching clients, the more consulting work I would get. And eventually, the data was just undeniable. It doesn't matter if you are a serious person, you are entertained by all the same things that other people are entertained by. You go see R rated movies. You laugh at memes on the internet. There is no amount of money that you reach where suddenly you you aren't entertained by things anymore. Everybody has a sense of humor. Everybody, when they go to their their news feed. They want to be surprised, they want to be delighted. They want to be entertained. And I don't know why I thought executives at tech companies were different, but it turns out they're not.

Chris DuBois 4:54
Yeah, it's kind of, it feels like a novel concept on some on some level, where it's. It's like, oh, people to hold someone's attention, we need to be engaging and entertaining, right? Not just, hey, here are the facts, here's some logic, but like, here's the the emotional side of like, why you should enjoy whatever we're talking about, right? What I appreciate about a lot of your content is, is that it's an experience, right? It's not just, Hey, here's x, y and z. It's like, No, when you go, you're like, you're getting some you're we're competing for attention with Netflix, with, you know, getting the kids dinner, with taking our dogs for walks, with all of these different things that aren't just like the competition, right? We're where I think a lot of businesses are just focused on, what are the competitors saying? It's like, No, you're competing for attention with everything. So when you can create content like the way you do and the way you're teaching people to it's it's creating that experience that people want to like. They gravitate towards that because it's enjoyable and it's so different from everything else, right? Yeah, wasn't really a question, but

Speaker 1 6:04
it's the Sesame Street principle. I thought I was a big fan of Sesame Street as a kid, and Sesame Street was created based on the premise that if you keep a child's attention, you can educate them, and that's true for everybody. That's true for everybody. And there's this phrase that I was taught as a writer, that I was taught as an improviser, where they say, Start in the middle, and that's really become important over the past decade or two. You'll notice movies, even kids shows, they're not shot in sequential order anymore. Before, you know, stories used to be told like, here's the exposition and here's the background, and then the event happens, that changes, and then there's the climax, and then there's the falling action, and then there's the resolution. So much of entertainment now just shows you the climax. First they bring you in at the most exciting part of the story, and you're all disoriented, and you're like, what's going on? And then once you're hooked, then they're like, Okay, 30 years earlier, you know? And now they're ready to bring you back to the beginning of the story. But our brains have changed. And even if we want to be interested in in long form stuff and long patient type, we've just we've learned to recognize patterns quickly, and we have to mentally sort out the things in our feed. Because even if I went through LinkedIn and only watched videos and read content from the creators I personally like and am friends with, if that was all I did, if I went through LinkedIn and read a post from every single one of my friends every day, I would never get anything done ever, ever. So you got to start with the action. You got to pull them into the middle of the scene, which is what I'm always trying to do. I feel like the easiest way to get an audience's attention is to, like, throw them in the middle of a scene where they don't know what's going to happen next, where they don't even know what should happen next? And they're like, oh, I don't know where this is going. Then you got them, you know, then they're with you. But yeah, that requires sometimes thinking a little bit out of the box. That requires a little bit of acting. Sometimes you kind of got to be a YouTube star. You kind of got to be a TV star. And most of these are just not skills that anybody in B to B has ever been taught, and certainly not skills that have processes designed for developing them in most B to B companies. Yeah,

Chris DuBois 8:58
so actually, on the development side, how are you creating content ideas?

Speaker 1 9:05
How am I creating content ideas? So that's there's a lot of different ways that I create content ideas, but the easiest way to think about it is in terms of themes. So this is something I picked up from my comedy days, because I did a show for a number of years where it was half sketch, half improv. We would write a new sketch every week, and you'd have to put up the show super quick, and oftentimes we would have a guest, and we learned just if you have a theme for the show, it makes it so much easier to write. The audience can dress up in costume. They can get into it. And if you've ever watched my content on LinkedIn, you'll see that this is something I do all the time. So an example of this, I had Kevin Dorsey on my show recently. Kevin Dorsey, LinkedIn. Op sales voice, he and I were going to be talking about video prospecting for sales, and we were going to focus very much in on, uh, a niche of this, which is like it, we're not just going to be talking about video for sales. We're going to be talking about, how do you build a process for video in sales. And that sounds like it's very limiting, you know, but it's actually very freeing, because I know, okay, for the next seven days, all my content is going to be about this topic, you know. I'm going to make videos. I'll make an entertaining comedy sketch, I'll make an image post. I'll make a text post. I can do all sorts of things talking about how I built my process, why I built a process? What was life like before I built a process? How is Kevin's process different from mine? How do processes vary from organization to organization. So I'm putting all this content out there throughout the week. I'm sending ideas back and forth to Kevin as I'm building the outline. Everybody who's interacting with my content throughout the week is getting a connection request or they're getting an invite to the upcoming show. And after seven days, what you have is like you've got the lead magnet, which is my content, which is all about how to build these processes. It's generating all these ideas and all these things I could talk to Kevin about. Kevin comes on the show, and now we've got a couple 100 people signed up, and I know that they care about what Kevin says, because they specifically interacted with all this content about building video processes for sales. I put it out there, and now I also have a nice little warmed up group of leads that I can do sales to. You know, if they have the right job title, they know what I'm about. They've been experiencing, you know, what I've been doing, they've been clicking the like button. They've been asking me questions. Now, if I make a 32nd video being like, hey, appreciate you reaching out. Let me know if you ever want to talk about building a process for your team. Is that something you're open to? Have you ever thought about that? Let me know either way. And thanks for supporting the content. It's this wonderful little package where I got all these things. I got guest collaborations, I got original content. I put content out there that attracted people. I've got a sales strategy. It's because everything was connected to this one theme, you know. And I even do a thing where I alternate themes, I alternate shows. One week i will have on a serious, quote, unquote, serious revenue, leader, sales, leader, marketing, leader, whatever. And then the next week, I'll have on an entertainer. I'll have a content creator or a comedian or a musician or an actor or something like that. And I rotate them, you know, because I do do two different things, there's this creative aspect of what I do. There's also this consultative strategy. Type service that I do that's focused on execution, and because I'm alternating the types of guests that I'm doing, it allows me some variety in the content that I'm putting out there, while also maintaining some of that consistency. And I get to build these little mini audiences, these little sub audiences within my audiences, and that also provides me opportunities for things I can talk about in the future. You know, what are the sales enablement people say that group of people that liked me talking about process with Kevin Dorsey, what Didn't we talk about? What other problems are they facing? You know, how can I build a show around that. And, yeah, I was always taught that, like, you don't just have one audience. You've got these little mini audiences, and the more you can identify your mini audiences. Now it becomes a game of asking yourself, not like, oh, how can I say the most brilliant thing on earth that a million people will click the like button on it's like, you know what? I haven't done a show for my marketing enablement people in a while, I'm gonna do something that they care about. I'm gonna pick a topic that's geared towards them and a guest that's geared towards them, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna spend a week just giving them some stuff, because here's this new offering, I want to be pushing. I want to be selling to people. I could start planting seeds, and I can start warming up this idea in my audience's mind. And that's just like one avenue I pursue for content creation. But if you've got a theme, it helps stick to the theme. Do the theme in multiple different formats? I don't really see a lot of other creators talking about that, but it's been a guidepost to me for the past several years,

Chris DuBois 14:51
and it's probably it's like as you were getting into right? And it's a great way to just keep creating more ideas that are still. Sequentially tied to this one bigger idea. And so rather than kind of spreading, like when people find your content and they something resonates with them, knowing that there's a theme going on right now where there are more content pieces that will resonate with them only helps to hook them further, where if like, every post is something completely different, and just the right you're potentially going to lose those people that you're talking to, or that you could have hooked initially. And obviously, I think your outreach has, like, a huge influence on that as well, and something that agencies could easily be doing with their content, which my guess is that they're a lot of them are not doing this. What are some of the other like mistakes that you see agencies or even just anyone who's becoming a like a video goer? What are they committing that they should not be?

Speaker 1 15:57
The biggest mistake I see people make is they say if a video gets a million impressions, it must be good, and a video gets 500 impressions, it must be bad. That's the easiest fallacy to fall into. And I say this just as a guy who's been doing it for a long time, I ask my audience a lot, if anybody reaches out to me and they're like, oh my god, I love your stuff. Let's connect. First thing I asked them was, thanks. Was there anything that stuck out to you specifically? Can you think of a video or a show or something I did that stuck with you? And sometimes the answer is no, but sometimes the answer is yes, and I'm surprised by how often it was a video that I almost deleted because it didn't get very many views. The big viral ones, the ones that got the biggest reach, are often not the ones that people remember. And it makes sense, if you think about it, because think about how audiences work. You know, it's the difference between going shallow and wide, or, you know, narrow and deep. If you're making something that 10 million people are going to smash the like button on. It's probably not something very advanced. It's probably something pretty simple. I'm thinking about a lot of really crappy LinkedIn posts that are just like a guy holding a piece of cardboard that's like, this is like, pay good employees for their hard work, and say, Who could deny that? Who could disagree with that? I don't believe that good employees shouldn't get paid for their hard work, so I'm gonna smash that like button. But if you're selling to executives at Fortune 100 companies, there's not that many of those you're selling to the 1% of the 1% and they're also notorious because they don't click the like button on anything. You could make a video of you curing their spouse's cancer, and they'd be like, Oh, cool. And they just keep on scrolling. You know, because they don't, it's a lurker. We call these people lurkers. And if you do a lot of video content, you've probably been in the situation where someone comes up to you and they're like, hey, love your content. Been following it for years. I've sent your videos to my team. I sent one and like, you're and you're like, I have no idea who this person is. They're not a first connect. They've never clicked the like button. And so it's hard, and especially if you are used to, you know, hitting your quota, whatever of your sales leader, you live and die by the numbers. And it seems logical that like a video that gets a million impressions is better than the one that gets 500 impressions. But why do those million impression videos are bad? A lot of them are doing, like, questionable things behind the scenes, like you can just pay for engagement. There are agencies where you can just be like, I'm gonna spend 200 bucks to buy 2000 LinkedIn followers. That's legal. You can just do that, you know. So oftentimes you don't actually know what's driving those huge engagement numbers. And when an influencer is like, wow, look at my 2.5 million impressions LinkedIn, growth is real. Like you don't know if they're actually making any money off that, but oftentimes the video that speaks directly to you where you're like, Man, this person feels like they're reading my mind. You don't rush over and check their engagement on that. Maybe it only has, you know, a few 100. Use, but spoke to you, you know, so chasing the algorithm is a trap like that. Yes, you should be monitoring your metrics, and yes, you should be trying to grow your audience, but if you're chasing virality, you're gonna find yourself quickly disappointed. You're gonna burn out pretty, pretty fast.

Chris DuBois 20:20
I had done a series of videos. It was getting probably a couple out a week, just called Coffee with Chris. And I would just be walking around my property with a cup of coffee and sharing whatever my current thoughts were. And they did okay for, like, for videos and stuff, and then I just kind of stopped doing them. I think it was primarily because winter came to Maine, and I wasn't about to keep doing that. All the coffee drinkers freeze in the winter, right? And so. But immediately following, I got a lot of people reaching out to me saying, Hey, man, why did you stop doing those like, I was loving them. And it was like, why didn't you engage like, show me that you like these, right? Like, like, encourage me the way I tell my children not to encourage each other when they're doing something annoying, but they're just not doing it. It's not how people work, right? So I wrote an article that can, I'll put it in the show notes here, just about I call them orbiters, where it's like they're continuously circling your content and they see you, and it's up to you to create that piece of content that increases your network gravity and pulls them in closer, because eventually they'll reach out for something, right? They're orbiting. Eventually they're going to get something will bring them in tight enough that they've now become engaged. You

Speaker 1 21:32
need to think of something that's going to actually reach out. That's why I started doing I have a show called Death by PowerPoint, and there's a number of reasons why I do it. One, because, again, people like the comedy, so I wanted to have a regular vehicle where I could give them the kind of comedy that they want to see on LinkedIn. But it was also a deliberate decision to go after the lurkers, and that is what happened in many times. If you've ever done comedy, for better or for worse, you get a lot of people thinking that they could do it too. You know, that's why you get hecklers. Everybody thinks they're a comedian, and I'm like, so be it. I want people, I want people to watch me on LinkedIn and be like, That guy's not funny. I'm funny. I could go up there and do that, you know. So I built a show that has an audience participation aspect of it, where it's like, I bring in one or two guests per episode to do a PowerPoint presentation they've never seen. They're on the spot with PowerPoint presentation full of nonsense, and they got to go up there and try to make it look like it's an actual presentation. We might want to pass, because I hear an ambulance passing by. Um, yeah, so, um, there's an opportunity for them to perform, but they gotta reach out and add their name to the wheel, because once a week we spin the wheel and we choose another competitor. And sure enough, I got all sorts of people coming out of the woodwork, right? They can't be they can't take the time to click the like button on my video, but you give them a chance to be the funny person they can be out there, getting the laughs and getting the attention, getting the engagement, all they have to do is show up for five minutes and give a PowerPoint that's been handed to them, yes, and yeah, I've attracted a bunch of clients that way. I've gotten new fans. I've gotten people who I've discovered were following me for years, but never clicked the like button and never reached out. I gave them an opportunity where they could be heard and they could go up there to perform, and a lot of those lurkers revealed themselves, you know. And it wasn't because I went and copied some influencer who gets a million impressions. A lot of those death by PowerPoint shows don't get a huge audience, but the people that are there are invested in them, you know? And, yeah, sometimes you gotta think outside the box a little bit and say, like, Why aren't these lurkers raising their hand? Can I create a situation that might cause them to volunteer for something like this. How can I get them to show my show themselves? And that's another thing I've been experimenting is like, can you get, can you do a content format where creators and non creators both participate? And I think this stuff is, like, super cool. And again, it's not the kinds of things I ever see B to B wonder about, but I think they should.

Chris DuBois 24:50
So what are some of the tips that you would give to you know, founder of a marketing agency who decides, hey, video is going to be the way to go. We got to get this started. So. If they're they sit down with their team and they got to pick those few key areas to start with. What? What advice would you give them? So

Speaker 1 25:10
if you just starting out on video, if you're just starting out on video, I have a few pieces of advice. Piece number one, no one goes viral on their own. So if you see a YouTube if you see a podcast that just blows up overnight, it's usually because they did some sort of collaboration with a bigger podcast or a bigger YouTube account. So if you're starting on video, you should be looking around at creators and asking yourself, who already has the audience that I want, and your goal is to try to understand what their audience is, and also like, can you figure out a way to do a collaboration with that person you know. When I started making content a few years ago, I wanted to make a name for myself, so I paid for some agency to put me on podcasts. You'd pay to get on podcasts, and it didn't work. I would like I got on a couple shows. It wasn't super relevant, it wasn't super helpful. So I canceled my subscription, and I just started doing stuff, and I just started reaching out to other big creators in the space, and being like, I got an idea that we can do together, and I was surprised by how many people wanted to come on and make content with me. And again, you look at someone like I mentioned the name Kevin Dorsey. He's a bigger sales name than I am. He's a top influencer on LinkedIn. Why would I try to like, I don't know. Why wouldn't I team up with somebody like that? You know, there's a level of credibility that you get by working with somebody like that. And you know, when I reached out to Kevin, it wasn't like, Hey, come on my podcast. We'll figure out something to talk about. I was like, hey, I want to talk to you about process. Here's something I noticed that you talk about that I don't see enough people talking about and here's the conversation that I want to have with you, you know, I want to teach my audience about whatever, and that's why I want to bring you on. I'd love to have a conversation about X, Y and Z. I'm doing so much work for them by already figuring that stuff out, you know? And I guess that would be my final piece of advice on here, which is, if you want a bigger creator to work with you on a collaboration, make it very easy for them, you know, the less they have to figure out when it's like, Hey, I'm gonna bring you on and I've got the questions, and we're going to go deep on this subject, because this is your expertise, and I've got an audience that cares about that too. Here's the outline. They don't really have to do much other than show up. And I've gotten all sorts of offers for collaborations where it's just me doing a ton of work where they're like, oh, come in, and you can write a sketch and you can do this and you can do that, and I'm like, Hey, I have companies that pay me to write sketches for them, because they take work. They take scripting and editing and thought and precision. If your offer just sounds like me doing a lot of unpaid work, I'm probably not gonna do it, but when someone reaches out to me and they're like, We love your content, we get what you're doing. We have an audience that wants to learn more about video. We have an audience that wants to get deeper into the improv theory. Would you mind coming by and answering a couple questions that's much easier for me to say yes to,

Chris DuBois 29:00
right? I think a lot of people are probably at first hesitant to work with other people within their space that they might view as competitors. I'm guessing you have the same opinion that I do, as far as there is no competition in that regard, like let's do play some positive sum games, bring people in to create experiences for people that they wouldn't be able to get elsewhere, because it's only going to help, right? But I guess, what's some of your advice to reaching out to these people initially, or even, like, making your list of people that you could create content with, and then how do you kind of format those reach outs so that it doesn't feel like you're just trying to take advantage of their audience.

Speaker 1 29:48
My advice for trying to reach out to bigger creators is to give before you ask, and the easiest way to do that is just by. Clicking the like button. It sounds so simple and so obvious, but that is valuable. Engagement is valuable. You'd be surprised how many big creators who you think are probably the end all be all you talk to them, and they're a nervous wreck every time they post. And you know, they're very sensitive about their engagement score. And you know, maybe not everything is going so great behind the scenes, they're wondering if they should just all give it up. And even you just like clicking the button and being like, Hey, I saw what you did there. That was pretty clever. I really enjoyed that. You know, that goes a long way. And, you know, my whole philosophy on this is like the same philosophy I have behind sales, which is, your job is not to sell everybody. Your job is to open the door of conversation and keep it open. So sometimes that person's like, Oh no, I'm not able to do that right now. Or they give me some excuse or something. It happens, you know, but leaving a good impression on them means the door is probably still open, you know, as opposed to like, I don't know, it's like, it's a sales thing. It's like, No no for now, not no forever. You know, you'll be disappointed by the people who say no, but you will be surprised by some of the people who say yes, and that is definitely something I've learned. Some of the creators, who are very big and very successful and who seem to be doing great, like a lot of them, are just nice people, and would actually love to do your show if you asked, but most people just don't ask, or they don't ask enough, or, yeah, there's all sorts of reasons why people don't ask, right?

Chris DuBois 32:08
That's probably a good when you're working with video, a lot of people feel like they're putting themselves out there, and so if you're going to put yourself out there, you might as well also be putting yourself out there in front of some of those creators that you want to engage with, right?

Speaker 1 32:22
Yeah, and also, you know, be smart about who you're asking, you know, yeah, well, when I'm reaching out to people, you know, because I'm a video guy who does a lot of video stuff, like most of the people I reach out to are also video people, right? So they're not shy about getting on camera. They do it all the time. They do it regularly. They want to increase their audience. And you know, especially if you're trying to get into the world of like, sponsorships and stuff like that too, like, you got to sell your audience, you know, and that's what I'm doing all the time, where it's like, Hey, I'm not telling them that I'm a big, famous celebrity, but I'm like, I have an audience who is, you know, they're interested in video, they're interested in sales. They are. They have questions about this. They work at companies where they're dealing with problems like this. I would love to bring you in, and we would do a whole episode about the importance of listening, you know, or how to write a good email. And so I remember I had the founder from lavender on once, and I was like, he just, like, reached out to me. He's like, What are we gonna be talking about? I'm like, email, like, the thing you specialize in, that's what we're talking about. It's a whole show about email. And I hate email, you know, but it's important. It's a necessary part of doing sales. I just explain that to him, like, Hey, we're gonna have the episode. You're gonna come in as the email guy. I'm the skeptic who doesn't like email and who's sick of being emailed too much, and my audience feels very much the same way, and that's what I think the show is going to be about, is like, you're the email guy. I'm the anti email guy. How can you help me do email better? And surely we can find a way to fill an hour with that. You know,

Chris DuBois 34:26
awesome. Well, Chris, this has been a it's been a fun conversation. I got two more questions for you the first meeting. What book do you recommend every agency leader should read? Yeah, I'm

Speaker 1 34:46
going to pull up my list of books read this year because I forgot to prep for this. So, okay, I got one. I. So I'm gonna pick a weird one, because I'm not a sports guy, but I actually love this book. It's called 11 rings by Phil Jackson. So I'm a Chicago guy. I grew up loving the Chicago Bulls, and Phil Jackson is been one of my lifelong heroes, because he's a man who understands that talent comes in different forms, and you have to treat different people differently, depending on their strengths. I have this belief I always say, like, you know, especially in tech, there's like the Michael Jordan problem, which is, everybody wants the number one person. Everyone wants the number one player. The Chicago Bulls wouldn't have worked if Michael Jordan was the coach, and he was trying to coach every single player on the team as though they were Michael Jordan. You know, Phil Jackson has a very like spiritual side about him, and he's very good at building group mind and getting groups to function together. And he was a great coach for Michael Jordan because he recognized Jordan's talents, and he pushed Jordan hard. He pushed Jordan harder than everybody else on the team, because that's the kind of leadership that Jordan needed when he was dealing with Dennis Rodman. It's a much different story. You know, Dennis Rodman had a lot of issues with substance abuse and depression, and he was, you know, almost suicidal at times, and Phil needed a much more gentle touch with him. And, yeah, he's got a fascinating story of leadership. And, you know, he's coached so many teams to championships with all sorts of big egos and all sorts of talent that didn't play nicely together, and he's always able to create this spirit of harmony and connectedness where everybody's talents find a way to come together and work together. So yeah, read 11 rings by Phil Jackson. Fantastic book.

Chris DuBois 37:18
Awesome. Last question, Where can people find you? You

Speaker 1 37:22
can find me on LinkedIn. Wait, I'll do this. Easiest way to find me is on LinkedIn. Go ahead and click that bell, because linkedin's algorithm is famously fickle. So you can get new updates from me all the time. I'm always posting new content. A lot of it's educational, a lot of it is entertaining, some of it's comedy. But I'm always trying to give the audience simple things they can do to be out there on video, more often, doing interesting, helpful things. So yeah, go find me. Chris Bogue on LinkedIn. You can also purchase my course, the complete guide to selling on video from chrisbo.io and you can also find me on Spotify. Look up Chris sells his soul for conversations with creative people, and those are the best ways to find me.

Chris DuBois 38:15
Awesome, Chris, thanks for joining.

Unknown Speaker 38:17
Thanks for having

Chris DuBois 38:22
me. That's the show everyone. You can leave a rating and review, or you can do something that benefits. You click the link in the show notes to subscribe to agency forward on sub stack, you'll get weekly content resources and links from around the internet to help you drive your agency forward. You

Transcribed by https://otter.ai