Agency Forward

Chris DuBois 0:00
Hey everyone, today I'm joined by James rose. James is the co founder of content snare, and has spent years solving one of the biggest bottlenecks that agencies face, getting content and information from clients without endless follow ups. I wanted to bring James on because every agency has struggled with unresponsive clients, missing information, and these projects, they get stuck where you're just waiting for content. He's got practical insights on how to fix these issues and free up time for high value work. In this episode, we discuss why agencies struggle to get content from clients and how to fix it, the systems and processes that make Content Collection effortless, how to set client expectations upfront to avoid bottlenecks and more. No one was asking for another community, but I've made one anyways. So what's different? The dynamic agency community is designed around access rather than content, access to peers who've done it before, access to experts who've designed solutions, access to resources that have been battle tested and right now, the price for founding members is only $97 a year. Join today, so your agency has immediate access to everything you need to grow you can join at Dynamic agency dot community and now James rose, it's easier than ever to start an agency, but it's only getting harder to stand out and keep it alive. Join me as we explore the strategies agencies are using today to secure a better tomorrow. This is agency forward. What are the biggest challenges that agencies face when gathering content or information from clients,

Unknown Speaker 1:54
the clients don't respond.

Chris DuBois 1:59
Episodes over folks, all right, yeah,

Speaker 1 2:01
man, it's painful. I've spoken to people about this before we built our product, and the language people would use around this was like, so emotional, you know, like, on the calmer end would be like, This is the biggest pain in the ass in our business. Right on the extreme end, it was like, this made me want to leave the industry. That's like, how big of a problem it is? It's, it's because, you know, one, it's work for clients. If you got to, if you want to ask clients to do something, it's just more work. And no one likes doing more work. So I think, you know, I guess we'll get into this. But like, making it easy for them is so important, because they don't want to have to go and do more stuff. So one is just they get busy as well. So like, they see your email, like, give me this Google Doc full of content or whatever it is, and they not everyone's, like, an amazing Inbox Zero every day kind of person. So if they don't get to that, and then it gets buried, they just forgot. Like, don't take it personally, but yeah, then then it really just comes down to a big work, and it being something that, like, it's actually a challenge for them too, right? It depends what you're asking them to do. If it's like, what's talk about your business? What do you do? Any services? Who do you serve? Blah, blah, generally, that's pretty easy for people. But if you're asking them to, like, think and create something, it's a hard task that just gets put off. You. We all know what this is like. Sometimes you're just not in the mood, and you put off hard tasks. So you put all these things together and you just, it can be a nightmare,

Chris DuBois 3:30
right? Well, there's probably another layer too, where, depending on who you're asking for all of this, there's like, the especially with like, B to B, right? There's always this worry that, like, well, this engagement gets screwed up. It's on me, like everyone's gonna point their finger at me and so, so even there, there's like, a hesitancy to do some of the things you're asking them to do, because they really got to make sure what I'm doing is right.

Speaker 1 3:54
That's interesting. That's a really good, good point that, you know, and this is the kind of thing. All of these are quote, unquote, fixable, right? It's just like, you make that really clear that it's like, don't worry. Like, we can edit these. We can change these. Like, it's not final. Like, we even tell people that with content snare, it's like, when you're creating your templates and stuff in content snare, don't think it's got to be perfect the first time it goes out the door. You can edit this later, right? Yeah, that's a really good fear to squash. Yeah, good luck. Yeah,

Chris DuBois 4:24
yeah. I think we, the way we kind of mitigated some of that my agency was, we called it the swoop and poop, which was when, when a stakeholder would come in who had no like, they had never been in any of the other meetings, and they would just be like, hey, we want to change all this. You're like, well, you don't know why we got here and did all this. And so we'd bring that up, like in the sales call, that, like, we will not stand for this. So like, we need the stakeholders who are going to have some decision authority in any piece to be part of each decision. And so if the whoever we were working with, they had that kind of, like an. Out almost right where it's like, like, need to give it to the stakeholders. They have to be present, so now they're all part of the conversation, rather than it just being that one person hoping that they're making the right decision.

Speaker 1 5:09
And when you when you brought it up in the sales meeting, did you call it the swoop and poop? Yeah,

Chris DuBois 5:13
sticks in their head real fast.

Speaker 1 5:17
It's everything everyone can relate to that that is, yeah, that's amazing.

Chris DuBois 5:22
The right term will really embed itself there. So I guess, yeah. Let's get into so how do you make it easy for them?

Speaker 1 5:32
Yeah? So, like, a couple of tips here. I mean, it's irrespective of how you're doing this, whether it's like Google Docs or forms or content snare. I mean, the biggest overarching theme is, just like, put yourself in your client's shoes. One, okay, just sorry. First, the most simple thing is automatic reminders, right? Because you don't want to have to keep reminding clients. One, you probably don't want to. It feels icky to constantly chase up clients can make you feel like the bad guy. If you've got something that can do the automatic reminders, you can just blame it on that tool or whatever. You know, are you going to get some emails that remind you? Because we're going to need the stuff to actually finish the project. So yeah, you're going to get some email reminders. So once that's done, like, that's the easy bit. The other bit is, like, put yourself in your client's shoes. The biggest thing to remember is, it's the curse of knowledge is, I think the proper term for it, but it's like, when you've been doing something for so long, it's really hard to understand someone who hasn't been it's just like, how do you not know this? Like random acronym that I've used five times a day in my web design business, right? So, but that's the thing to remember, is clients won't know this stuff. There's, there's terminology, like, do they know what a hero header is? I don't know. Like, probably not. You probably need to explain that, or put that in different terms. So that's like number one is, is just really thinking about, like, what your clients do and don't know, and trying to, like, explain away everything that they could misconstrue that so that, like, that's the easy way. Like, every thing you're going to ask them to do, it's like, what is, what are the ways they could misconstrue this? And how can I, like, address that now in advance? So when they read the instructions that I, you know, I want them to fill out this box or provide this file or whatever. Like, it's all there, you know, like a funny one is, like, you know, some in other industries, if people use content snare, there might be people asking for an ID photo or something, and it's like, please make sure it's not blurry. It's so silly you have to say that. But if you don't

Chris DuBois 7:38
do it right, their thumb covering half the photo,

Speaker 1 7:41
yeah. And another piece of this is, like visualization. So as a you know, agency owner, you're dealing with, you know, all kinds of campaigns and and, like, designs and stuff all the time, you can picture things a lot faster than most of the population can. This is like a spectrum. I learned about this other day. There's like, people that can, like, are really good at, like, visualizing stuff. And this is in the physical world too. Like, my sister in law can visualize we're doing, trying to design a renovation right now. And she could just be like, Oh, yeah. Like, this and this and that and that. I'm like, man, what's going on? Like, I need to see a 3d render right now. Um, so, you know, there's this range of people that just can't you got to assume that some people can't visualize things. So if you can use some kind of visual effects in when you're requesting info, so if it's a website, you could have a wireframe, or, like, a mock up of what the header might look like. There's a picture on the right. There's a headline here, like they're not visualizing those things necessarily, or they might be visualizing something completely different. And so, you know, you don't, you want to take that ambiguity out now, so that when they, you know, it comes back later and they're like, that's not what I had in my head, you know. Yeah, so that's a they like the overarching principles of how to make this easy. The tech is kind of the last piece. So you know, where are they entering this information? Are they like replying to an email in line with a different color and like, are they having to, like, you've sent a list of dot points, and if they're a nice, conscientious, awesome person, they're going to go new line, change it to red, and answer your question, otherwise they're just going to start blasting inside that email like that sucks, and they've got to try and cross reference, like where the question is and whatever you know, so that if you're going to use Google Docs, that's like the big, common one, right for getting info from clients, is it easy for them to sort of read through that document and again, like, like, one thing I used to do that that made it so much easier is where I wanted them to type. I just put a one by one table in so it's just a box for them to type in, right? Like, type here, instead of all through the document in different places and whatever. So. So, yeah, just trying to reduce places where they might mess it up. Another one is client portals. So making it easier, a lot of people send people some kind of portal that requires a login. For some reason, we all know this, clients are just really bad at remembering passwords and logging into things all of us in the web space. But like, yeah, we got one password or whatever, and we just go log in, done easy. Not everybody's like that. It's taken me, like, 14 years to get my wife to get a password manager, and it was because she lost access to something really critical. And I was like, now, let's do it now. So that's the thing, if you have to, if you have to, if they have to log into something, they're not going to do it. They're not logging into some project management system to see your content requests or whatever. They'll they'll hit that password thing and go the window and go, nah, forgot. And I'll leave, you know, and I'll never come back. So that's another thing to make it easy, right?

Chris DuBois 10:56
So, man, all right, similar situations, even with with the wife not having something, we actually had someone steal or get access to our Netflix account, which was through her email and everything. And they and they just changed all of our like everyone in our family had their own little thing, and they changed all the names of their family. And so right before swapping it back, I changed it to, I will find you for each of their account names. See it. I kept it for two days, and then I blocked everything and changed password. But on that front now, but the just a couple things I want to go into, so I don't know what order to hit these in. Let's go random. So the I like the idea of focusing their attention, right? So, like you brought it up in a couple different ways, where, like, Hey, we're gonna do a wireframe to present this stuff. So now you're kind of, you're directing how they're thinking about this, rather than letting them come up with some of their own ideas. You're really like directing the steps here. So it's like, we need this specific piece of information and and you're kind of setting the framework around it so that they don't get distracted. They can just focus in on that one piece. And even if that is just putting a box so they know where to enter it, it's like you're really forcing them to, like, hone in on that one piece. I think that one speed to getting a result is going to increase with that, right? But then also, like, you're very much limiting confusion and reducing the chance that they get some of those, like, those good ideas that often lead to scope creep and stuff, it's like, no, just, just look here. Don't look over there yet, right? Like, but then the other just the concept of making things easier, it's like, everything you just said is probably just great life advice, where it's like, the easier you can make a system, the more likely someone is to follow it. Like, whether it's a habit for yourself, whether you're doing something with your kids, but like, with it, even with your clients, right? The easier you can make it, the more likely they are to just jump in and say, Oh yeah, I can just knock that out, right? And once they do the first, like, two or three times that you're requesting information, and it's super easy, it's a no brainer for them to just jump in right away, knock it out to get it off their plate. And so I think that's probably good. This is missing with a lot of agencies where it's like, they're making it hard, unreasonably. And then there's an

Speaker 1 13:09
old um UX quote, I kind of where it came from, but don't make me think, you know, that's like, one of the things with when you user interface, yeah, I think, I think it is, I don't know if it was first or what, but yeah, like, a part of me, like, disagrees with it, because I feel like making everything so easy, it's making everyone like, I don't know, these crazy expectations where everything has to be in five seconds and and like, I feel like it's making people dumber, Almost, but that's another topic. But that is, like the principle, man, if you want people to do stuff, it's got to be just as easy as possible. Don't make them think.

Chris DuBois 13:47
And there's, yeah, there's probably another layer to this, which I work on this with some of the agencies I'm coaching for some of their sales processes. But even within this is probably there where it's like, you want to, you want to show the complexity, but really, like, sell the simplicity, right? So, like, you want it to be easy, but you also want them to know there's a lot going on here, and I am the one who's stopping you from having to deal with that. Do this little simple thing, right? I can do everything else. Don't worry about it, and it makes you kind of more irreplaceable by just them knowing that. And so, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 14:22
I mean, that kind of kicks back to the it depends how you, you know, running these campaigns. Like, I know some people will request exact copy from clients, but like, you know, if you can get them to talk about things that they know really well, like I was saying before this, like, who are you? What are your products? Who do you serve? Why do they like you? What are some cool things like customers have said about you, and you're turning that into things like that. That's exactly the same thing. It's like, there's all this simplicity for them to do, and then you're doing all this complexity to turn that into something that

Chris DuBois 14:52
sells. Yeah. Tom, so why do you think these like content kind of bottlenecks pop up in the first. Place for agencies, like, why isn't it just easy for for an agency to say, Give me this. And I know we got into some of the Yeah, they they have attention. The client has their attention being pulled in multiple directions. But it's like you would assume that if I ask you for something, you just, oh, yeah, here, here you go, right? But there's something bottlenecking that,

Speaker 1 15:20
yeah, yeah. It's the same, same sort of thing. It's just a time, you know, it's just, you mean, from on the client's perspective, or the agency's

Chris DuBois 15:27
for the agency's perspective, like, what's creating the bottleneck internally for them?

Speaker 1 15:32
Not even aggressive, a bit of it is, yeah, there might be reluctance to follow up, or a lack of time to follow up, a lack of time to lay out, like all the stuff we've talked about, takes time to set up, right? These are all processes you have to guide. You have to work out how you going to create that wireframe or mock up. How are you going to present that to the client? How are you going to label that to like, you know, and explain all the different bits and pieces you need from them. It's much easier to just go in and go, I need this, this, this, this, and this, and just list it all out and send that off, and then that comes back and bites you later. It is always a time thing that prevents these kind of things being improved. But Everyone's so busy, right? Especially agency owners. My God, some of the agency owners I've spoken to in the past are some of the busiest in the world. But so, you know, we work with a lot of accountants as well, and they're the same. You know, the the amount of accountants that just have no time left, so, and we're trying to get them to sign up to our product and use it. It's like, No, this is really going to save you time. It really is like, we've got a ton of testimonials. And, like, past, you know, clients that have just done amazing work with this, but it takes time. And, you know, one of my favorite quotes was this accountant who said, In four hours setting up content, saying he replicated what would have been a full time job for someone, chasing info from clients. But four hours is still a bit of a roadblock, right? Like, obviously, that's, that's kind of not everyone's going to get that. Going to get that result, but sometimes it might take longer to set up to depending on what processes you're doing. But the thing is, it's spending time now to save time later, and a lot of people don't have that time now. That's kind of the problem. It's that it's just not to catch 22 you know, I've been there in my business. I remember specifically, there's such a crap memory for most things, but I have the very vivid memory of this time I was at a friend's house. I got invited over on, like, a Thursday because I had a friend in town, and he wanted to play board games at my friend's house, this before we had kids and responsibilities and stuff. And I was like, Oh yeah, cool. Like, that's the reason I got into business, is be able to do stuff like this on a whim, and I spent the whole day just checking emails and whatever, like, I was just stressed being like, I'm not working, I'm not doing this, I'm not doing that. So for me, it was actually a bit of a breaking point where I just went, you know, what, screw this, like, I'm just going to delay some of this client stuff and get some of my systems sorted, because this is way more important. You know, that's hard to do. It's very hard to do. For me. It was a really big sort of mental switching moment that triggered it. But, yeah, it's it just needs to be done. Sometimes,

Chris DuBois 18:10
I think that's a pretty common flow for so I think, like the battle for agency owners is there, there's always another priority that should be in place, and it's once there's a pain that kind of creates enough, like activation energy. It's like, okay, I have to solve for this now. Like, I can't, can't deal with it anymore, because I see it a lot with agency marketing. Like very few agencies do their own marketing. They they're so busy doing marketing for their clients, yeah, like they just, they don't handle it in house until they have no leads coming in because they were leaning on referrals. And now all of a sudden, it's like, oh no, right? We have no business. And and then it becomes an issue, and they go look for a coach or someone else to come home, and it's a thing, but it's like, if you can kind of pinpoint those problems now and know, like, I do need to kind of dedicate some time every week to working on the things that'll have a problem later, we can

Speaker 1 19:02
solve this now without, without a coach, daily theming man like this is, that's the thing that fixed it for me, is like, I would dedicate each day to a certain thing. Like, Monday was content production. Tuesday was like content promotion. Wednesday was like relationships and meetings, whatever. You know, you bring up these things. So, and Thursday was my process and automation day. Friday was like research and learning day. But that's not the whole day, right? So for me, it was always morning for that deep work type stuff. It could be like three hours or four hours, whatever. And then afternoons client work, you know. So every day you still got your client work time, email time, whatever, like that. That's how you look. It doesn't have to be as insane as that. You could have like Thursday, Thursday mornings as your process time, everything else client work, I don't know, like, start there, yeah, like theming, theming days is such a game changer for me.

Chris DuBois 19:58
Yeah, I can see that in Super. Of value. Even right now, I have what I call buffer days, and then my, like, active work days, and the buffer days are just Monday and Friday, and it's like, so I can prep everything for the week, and I can close out everything for the week, and, like, I fill my calendar with meetings, everything in between. But it means I have a day that if I if the process is the most important thing to work on. It's like, I can go knock that out. And so, yeah, yeah, I can back up that, uh, that method. I think, yeah, a lot of agencies would just, just getting some control over the calendar would probably be a game changer for them. Or,

Speaker 1 20:31
yeah, you can stop that literally on the calendar, draw a big box over half a day and go, This is my process time. No one can believe, like, right?

Chris DuBois 20:42
How big was your agency?

Speaker 1 20:46
I think we had got at peak is probably, like six or seven of us, pretty much a one web design so, so we started with doing everything, like the classic, you know, we do AdWords and SEO, and because, like, Seo was my game previously, then the reason we did websites is because people were like, oh, like, you're in tech. Can you build websites? Okay, sure. By the end of it, we actually stripped everything away and became sort of the development partner for a lot of other agencies and added in software development, like app that sort of stuff as well. So we did a lot of UX apps and software and just web, back end web design. So for marketing agencies, because I was just like that, we kind of ended up in that. And it was just like, I didn't like going out and getting clients and stuff. So, you know, we're such a good model. When you you've got these, like the partners that just feed you work, and you don't have to go out and get stuff. Obviously, profit margins change in that equation, but, yeah, it's

Chris DuBois 21:49
pros and cons, right? But at six or seven, team members like you were probably still heavily involved in in the day to day, and so the fact that you were able to still block out part of your calendar to get stuff done and manage a team do all the client stuff. It's like more credence to the idea that agency owners can do it. If you Yeah,

Speaker 1 22:08
yeah. Look, I mean, if you've got someone, you know, doing development or design, you know, like some of those are, like, the core elements, right, that are super time consuming stuff, if you can get rid of that and have an assistant, and those can be done. You know, if someone's really new, listening to this, it's like, those can be done fairly cheaply. Devs, the harder one, but, um, you know, it's not too hard to get those really time, sucking things off your plate so you can work on that, like, important stuff,

Chris DuBois 22:39
right? Yeah, yeah. I think it's again. It's the getting that activation energy to say, this is what I gotta do, yeah?

Speaker 1 22:47
Well, you get a breaking point one day. If you don't have it already, and you sit on it forever, you're gonna hit it. And it's not nice, right? Yeah,

Chris DuBois 22:54
well, you could probably just take one of those things that's keeping you up at night and you're staring at the ceiling, right, wondering, like, Am I making the right choice with my life, it's like, oh, I should probably just go address that. Yeah. So I guess if you had to give like, that one piece of advice, like the 8020 for figuring all of this out with as far as getting information back from your clients, like, what is the one thing that an agency should start doing to get a majority of the results? I guess, become a content fair client could be,

Speaker 1 23:25
it depends where you are in the process. I mean, it is like, you know, sometimes it is literally just like, have a process, because there's so many people who just, like, Give me all your content, or give me your stuff, or just, like, a basic checklist. So that's, yeah, that's what I'd say, is like, just start by actually putting something in place, like and explaining each thing you need from clients really well, like, detailing out what information you need, right, and how they should provide it to you. And what, you know, what are some examples of what you're expecting to come back, you know, like in guiding them through. So the again, the overarching thing, what they should do right now is put a system in place. The main thing they should think about is putting themselves in their clients shoes and just making it like it's not a nice way to say, but like dumbing it down, right? It's just it really is. Yeah,

Chris DuBois 24:19
make it simple. But I guess, would you recommend making this part of the client onboarding process to walk them through how to how we're going to be collecting information?

Speaker 1 24:27
Oh, yeah. So setting expectations is huge, right? That's like, a whole topic in itself. You know, it's like, how do you you know, sometimes there's a lot of things you can do with that. It's like, you know, even in the very first emails, like, we use XYZ system for getting content or whatever, sorry, more importantly is, like, the thing I'd always say is, like, every single project we have gets that gets delayed is because of content. And so when we ask for these things, you need to give it to us. We will give you a date, and if you miss that date, here's what's going to happen. Up. And for us, that was actually in our contract, we'd say, if you miss it by, like, if you miss the deadline, some people do, like, panelizing things, we're gonna find you $100 a day. It's like that seems like not. The one that always worked for us was like, one your project will go on hold, and it'll go to the queue, back to the queue, and at that point, there's no guarantee when we can start it again. So these are the deadlines, and like these are the this is the timeline in the proposal. All of that's gone if you don't get it hit those deadlines, because it just goes back to the back of the queue. That could be two websites or campaigns, two things, whatever could be 20. It just depends how busy we are at the time. It goes back of the queue, and then we'll get to it once we've got your content again. So that was pretty effective. I found, yeah, yeah, so and like, yeah. Just this needs to be communicated early and often. That one, you're going to need it, otherwise, the product is going to be delayed. And two, how you're actually going to get it from

Chris DuBois 26:06
them right, just to, I guess, add another, another technique, some we could use. So we kind of did the same thing where, hey, we have a deadline. We presented it this day. We need, you know, feedback or any other information by this day. For every day they miss it, we're allowed to push back the the deadline for, you know, the overall project, another day, and so, and and we kind of show them how that works, but there's a point where, like, right now, we have budgeted our capacity to be, you know, prioritizing your account. If we have to push this too late, it does mean you're not the priority anymore. Yeah, so, so just talking to them about that put that worry in the back of their head, and we never really had

Speaker 1 26:46
an issue with getting similar. I think there's obviously more consequence to go back to the back of the line. But yeah, yeah, the only issue I see with just pushing it by a day is exactly what you said. You've budgeted your resources, and it's like you've got to switch everyone to a new thing, and the client's going to have the expectation that when they do get you that content now, you're going to resource all everything back to them. I don't like, personally, I just thought that seems kind of difficult, like as a business, to manage if you

Chris DuBois 27:14
want. Like, imagine you just, you don't have another project right now, and so now your team is sitting there, just, like, what do we do? It's like, Good, I'm paying you guys for, you know, nothing like, we're utilization is going to plummet. So, yeah, there's, yeah,

Speaker 1 27:31
you know, a solution to that, that, like, I never fully, like, it depends what your business goals are, is having, like, an internal project. I've seen a lot of agencies do that, like, especially software development companies where they've got, like, a SaaS product they build, and it's like, client work, and then when it's like, if there's not enough, like, we'll go and work on their like, little internal project, a new website you want to build, or, like, some cool, like, directory idea, or whatever, like some other thing that everyone can kick back over to when there's no work. But, yeah, you've got, obviously have that idea. And,

Chris DuBois 28:01
yeah, even just going through, like doing internal marketing, like going through your pages, what can we make better? What can we tighten up? I guess it goes back. Hey, we actually do have time. What do we need to fix? Now, let's go work on these processes so this doesn't happen again. So I guess from you, what's a what's next for content scenario, what do you Yeah, what's on the

Speaker 1 28:23
internet? Man, it's funny, like, I have no big plans. It's at this point, it's kind of just like one step in front of the other, trying to improve the product. It like, I made that sound like it's a rat wheel, but it isn't like, you know, we're building cool new features, but the next main thing we're building is a sort of client portal where you can share information back with clients. Because right now, we're very much about getting info from clients. A big thing we get asked about all the time is giving that, like giving someone a place for them to go to get all that, like deliverables, you know, whether it's in this case, like designs or, you know, might be passed invoices or whatever like it's really just a repository of stuff for clients. It's all in one spot. So, you know, there's a lot of cool stuff like that coming. I'm really planning on going hard on content this year, doing the whole founder brand thing, which it's funny, like I did before in the agency space. I had like the podcast, through Facebook group, the newsletter, all that. And we kind of wound that down as our industry, as our products started getting used by lots and lots of different industries, like accountants and lawyers and stuff. And I'm like, How do I have a podcast for professional services? Like, I don't know this industry at all. So I kind of felt a little bit imposter syndrome, you know, so, but, yeah, I've worked out some like topics I feel like smart enough to talk about, I guess, and so I'll be talking a lot about doing that kind of stuff this year. That's, that's the big thing is, like the old, the classic founder brands, you know, seems to make, be making a big resurgence on LinkedIn at the moment. But yeah, otherwise. It's just building the product. You know, it's feature prioritization is kind of, it's not like a fun I mean, the outcome is fun, but it's like, it's really just a process. It's like, what if people ask for what do we think they need? How hard is each one of these features going to be to build? You know. And then what, what impact is it going to have on our clients? And then scoring on all of those things, and then sorting by score, yeah, and then gut feeling it a little bit, and then building those things, you know, like that. That's kind of how we roll. Yeah,

Chris DuBois 30:36
awesome. All right, I got two more for you with the first being, what book do you recommend? Every agency owner should read

Speaker 1 30:44
one. This is this book's pretty old, and so I'm just hoping it's still relevant. I looked at a few comments and it like, I remember it being pretty timeless, right? But I read it in my agency right in the middle of my agency stuff, and I remember thinking, like, this is awesome. It's one of the best books I've read, but it's been probably a lot like a decade since I read it. But it's Jay Abraham, who's a legend in like, the, I guess, advertising space, getting everything you can out of all you've got. I had to look it up because I forget the name of it all the time. It's a stupid, long name, but it was published in 2001 so it is pretty old, but, like, a lot of it was just like, realizing you've got all this opportunity in the work you've already done, essentially, hence the name, right? And I think that's really good, because you don't have to go and, like, create a whole new thing all the time to get new customers or whatever. So, yeah, I don't know that's the I that one always sticks out when people go, what was, what's the favorite book you've ever read, even though it was a very long time ago and I can barely remember what's in it, I just remember it was impactful. I took a lot of notes, and especially in our agency days.

Chris DuBois 31:54
Yeah, awesome. Uh, last question, Where can people find you? Um,

Speaker 1 31:58
I guess LinkedIn is probably the best, if you go, James rose, probably add content snare on the ends, because I've got, like, one of the most common names in the world, apparently. Yeah, that's the best or content snare.com to check out the product, obviously. Yeah, they're the best bots.

Chris DuBois 32:14
Awesome. All right, James, Thanks for Thanks for joining. Thanks,

Unknown Speaker 32:17
James, Chris, this was cool.

Chris DuBois 32:22
That's the show everyone. You can leave a rating and review, or you can do something that benefits. You click the link in the show notes to subscribe to agency forward on sub stack, you'll get weekly content resources and links from around the internet to help you drive your agency forward. You

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