Agency Forward

Chris DuBois 0:00
Hey, everyone, today I'm joined by Amanda Smith. Amanda is a podcast strategist and studio head at share your genius, where she has helped dozens of brands turn podcasts into powerful growth engines using narrative curiosity and clear outcomes to build brand and drive demand. I wanted to have Amanda on because podcasting is a proven growth channel that many agency owners just still struggle to execute strategically. So in this episode, we discuss what makes a B to B podcast binge worthy, how to choreograph guest interviews for impact, why distribution matters more than downloads and more. No one was asking for another community, but I've made one anyway. So what's different the dynamic agency community is designed around access, rather than content, access to peers who've done it before, access to experts who've designed solutions, access to resources that have been battle tested. And right now, the price for founding members is only $97 a year. Join today so your agency has immediate access to everything you need to grow. You can join a dynamic agency dot community and now. Amanda Smith, it's easier than ever to start an agency, but it's only getting harder to stand out and keep it alive. Join me as we explore the strategies agencies are using today to secure a better tomorrow. This is agency forward. What makes a branded podcast binge worthy in B to B?

Amanda Smith 1:35
Yeah, so I think everybody wants to have that next big podcast, right? And that is always a goal. We always have to kind of say, I'm not going to be the next Joe Rogan, or I'm not going to be, you know, the next insert here. But I think what is worth pulling out there is when you think about binge worthy, the word that I associate with that is like, worth listening to, like, just keeps people hooked and is interesting. So I mean, there's a couple of factors. A you have to know who your audience is. Who is this for? Right? Because if you're trying to do it for everyone, it's going to be for no one. So that's like, first and foremost, what makes things binge worthy? Because you know your audience. And then second, it's being being curious about the things that really interest you in line with that, because people can tell like, if you're not interested in whatever it is and you're just doing it because you think this is what the people want, or you think this is what people should be doing, people can sniff that out. So whether you decide to do an interview based show or a narrative show, just always be anchoring in like, what's the qui, what's the question I'm trying to answer? Um, how do I make sure people know that that's the question I'm answering, whether it's through a season or on an episode, and what value are they going to get that makes people that draws people in, and then what keeps them around is you continuing to deliver on that through the season or through the episode itself. So what makes it binge worthy? Have it be know who your audience is, and have it be made for them be truly curious about whatever it is that you're focusing on, and then third, make sure you're delivering on that throughout and letting people know. So a couple of ways that you can do that is sign posting open loops like just telling stories, but signaling that early. That's what makes a B to B. Podcast binge worthy. A story has to be present. Make sure there's a beginning, middle and

Chris DuBois 3:47
an end. The Curiosity base. I want to dive in there because I think I realized, as you were saying it, the podcasts that I enjoy the most are the ones who like these are mostly interviews, but they'll ask a question, they'll get the answer, and then they ask a deeper question about it, versus the ones that are like, checking the box with their questions, where it's like, they ask something, then they completely shift directions right after the answer is made. It's like, why do you do that? Like, it's obvious that you're just trying to get these these questions out.

Amanda Smith 4:15
Yeah, that's right. You can tell. You can tell. And the podcasts that I listen to are a lot more narrative driven, but even in the interview ones I listen to, the podcasts where I know the host is just going to deliver on what that is, whatever the episode is, and they're going to keep digging more like the ones that I just dip out of very quickly is they just stay surface level. I can get surface level from a lot of other places. I'm listening to something because a I trust your opinion and how you're going to go about it, probably with your guest or by yourself, however that is, and that's what's going to keep me around, because I can tell you're curious because I'm curious. That's the whole reason why I showed

Chris DuBois 4:56
up. Yeah, with the i. A like, surface level content too, like, I could just put that in AI now, right? But think the idea of the podcast is like, we have two people with unique perspectives. One is usually an expert on specific topic, the other one, the host can an expert in something. But it's like, you get to create this experience that no one else can. And so if you're just doing something that can be recreated with AI, it's like you're kind of missing the point. Like, let's do something that helps the audience actually, like, find the best information and everything that they want. Yeah, that's right, but yeah, the Okay, I want, I want to bring this up as a topic now to get your perspective. So choreographing, I guess interviews more so. So I was on an interview last year with it was a guy that I know a little better, and so we he told me some of the things he wanted to do with the episode. I gave him some feedback too. But we actually like crafted the structure of the interview. So it's very organic how it came out and everything. But we like left open, like, I purposefully left parts of answers out so that we could reference them later as, like, an open loop to keep people listening. And it became one of their most downloaded episodes ever, which I guess is more about, like, the headline and everything, not necessarily people listening unless they're sharing. But how much do you guys do a lot of that, like, just kind of, actually like choreographing the interviews.

Amanda Smith 6:24
It depends. I mean, I would say anybody should do a prep, right? So it's, Hey, you're gonna know the premise of your show. This is the outcome of our show, regardless of the guest, regardless of the topic. Like, this is our goal, right? So you have that as your anchor when you pick your topic or your guest, and then you have them on, I would always say, you know, you need to know what the goal of the conversation is, so it keeps you and your guests aligned. So if it's like, Hey, we're on here to talk about how to start your garden, and I start talking about advanced techniques for people I don't know, you know, like rural gardening, we're gonna go wait time out. That's not exactly the whole point of this. So I guess what I'm saying is, do prep definitely have at least an outline of this is what I want to cover, because it informs you and the guest, but then it also helps the guest prepare some stories. Again, I keep referencing stories. An anecdote isn't necessarily a story, but examples of how this was what was the pain? What was the change? How did this manifest? Like just showing that change and grow? It's really hard for a lot of people to think about that stuff on the spot. So a client of mine. I'm doing this with them right now. We do want to be able to turn these episodes into some use case studies with their clients. And we have to engineer the interview a little bit more because of it, right? Because it's like we need to be able to get this kind of data. We need you to be able to talk about that. We need you to be able to reference why that worked and why it didn't. So there is a little bit more of like, I'm asking this question because I want you to reference this thing that i are i already know you and the guests can be like, yep, that's actually right, or, Oh no, there's actually a little bit more nuance here to make the answer even better. But we don't script your aunt the answers, right? Because, like you said, it comes across as inorganic, you can tell, and it's weird, and nobody wants to listen to that. So yes, always prep and always be thinking about the outcome that you want to have with that episode. So again, use cases, I need some specific answers in order to be able to turn that into another piece of content, or have it do the thing that I want it to do. And there's no harm at actually doing that. I mean, you think about how people write books, people don't just sit there and write and see where things go. I mean, yes, that is can be a part of your process, right? But generally, know what the whole point of the story or the content in the end is,

Chris DuBois 9:10
right? Like us doing this podcast on podcasting, exactly, there you go. But yeah, I'm fully bought into the idea of conversations, not scripts in the podcasting world, because, like, nobody, if you as a guest, if people are following you and they want to learn more from you, they're going to show up to every podcast that you're going to right. They can search you, and they can find it if you're just saying the same thing every time it's like, they get bored, and they're not going to want to be part of that. But if a host can then ask you a different question, or get, like, something from you, and you have a different story now you both get to look good because you're saying new things to the audience, and the host gets to be that person. It's Yeah. So do you recommend, like, people have story banks, I guess, or, like, some, some place where they can go to just have, like, the general theme of the story that they can. Pull in in certain situations.

Amanda Smith 10:01
I mean always, right? I mean, whenever we're educating and launching shows with our clients, we always are starting with an outcome, right? So it's like, what is this podcast here to do? And then, as a result, if we're building brand, if we're driving demand, or if we're growing an audience with your premise, you're gonna have topics names that you're just like immediately come to mind, and it's always worth having those in a spot, because people reschedule. You may be creatively drained one month or one quarter, and you're just like, ah, what about what do I do? So having those ideas or having those guests kind of parked somewhere for you to reference later is always good, because it helps you stay ahead. It helps you stay consistent. And also, sometimes a guest or an idea might not fit with your messaging and positioning right now, but who knows, keep it there right because businesses outcomes, messaging changes gets refined over time, maybe that idea that you had that didn't quite fit in that moment actually fits perfectly six months down the road, or it's the springboard for something else. So short answer, yes, just anchor it in your outcome and your premise.

Chris DuBois 11:35
What are you seeing between for challenges, I guess, between guest based podcast and more narrative, like, kind of like solo cast, as far as one even keeping, keeping listeners growing the podcast, like, doing the things to achieve your business outcomes. Like, seems like everyone defaults to interviewing, because it's probably the easier thing, right? I just got to come up with questions. You do the storytelling. What do you Yeah, I guess. What are you seeing?

Amanda Smith 12:03
What am I seeing in terms of, like, trends or things people are up against? Yeah, one man, that's

Chris DuBois 12:09
probably a poorly phrased question for a guest the when we're looking at, looking at starting a podcast, right? You got a bunch of options. And so obviously they should be tied to your business outcomes, but you could ultimately achieve brand building, you know, networking building, like, actually, lead gen, demand gen, you could do all of that with either which one are you seeing people going more towards right now? And is there a reason?

Amanda Smith 12:41
Yeah. I mean, everybody's afraid of starting an interview podcast, like, everybody's got an interview podcast. I don't want to be just another one, whatever, blah, blah, blah, and it's like, I always challenge that and go, Why do you think an interview podcast isn't for you? Everybody wants to do the narrative. I want to do more narrative. It's cool, it's fun. It takes a lot of work just aside, and I'll get back to the interview podcast. But I worked on a project for a year. We followed a teacher in her first year of teaching, and we followed her throughout the course of that year, we were producing episodes to then release the start of her second year. That is a really long production cycle right to get it right, and even then, we learned what we would do better next time. You know. So it wasn't perfect, but you wait. They had to wait two years to understand how that content performed and the ROI and what do we do next time? So it's awesome to be able to do those things, but it takes longer. So in terms of sustainability and investment, interview podcasts, whether it's with somebody or even just you solo by yourself, are really valuable because the barrier to entry is lower. Where I think people get tripped up is they're like, well, like nobody cares what I have to say, nobody cares. And it's like, actually, they probably do. Gotta understand what that is, right, execute a really good theory. It's an educated guess, and then you were fine from there. So in terms of what I'm seeing, yes, interview shows absolutely because you also get to invite other people into that conversation, right? You invite your audience into that as well. You create a little bit more of this community, and you referenced this earlier, but a lot of stuff is getting replaced with AI. I mean, I'm not going to shy away from it. We're using a lot of AI in the work that we do, but that's not the end product. We start with a human, there's AI in between, and then we end with a human. And that start with a human is exactly. Exactly this. That's what people are craving, is more of that. So when people are like, Should I do a podcast in a world where a lot of AI is or is driving content creation? Yeah, because you're starting with the human and disseminating that message. So that's what, that's the trend that I'm seeing, and what I'm trying to just educate people on. It's like, don't be afraid to do an interview podcast. You can make it uniquely yours. Yep,

Chris DuBois 15:32
yeah. And in a world where Yeah, AI is taking over everything, like you're not going to be able to tell who did what for content creation in this instance, right? It wouldn't have fumbled the last question the way I did. Like, AI, like, we can see this is real, real people. I like the idea that everything in marketing is an educated guess. Like, we're just, we're doing the best of what we have. It's why we look for experts to be able to, like, shorten that gap. How are you, I guess, shortening that gap for for any of your clients, to go from not having a podcast or even having a podcast, but needing to, like, take it to the next level and actually doing that, like, what? What patterns are you looking for to kind of assist them with that?

Amanda Smith 16:14
Yeah. I mean, we you got to launch, right? So a lot of time and energy spent there, and then you got to have content out for at least a quarter. Because if you don't have that, it's hard to see patterns. So first and foremost, yes, you want to launch, and everybody wants to know how it does the first week, everybody wants to know how it does the first month. Reality is, yeah, okay, that's fine to know, but don't make any decisions from that yet. It's like, really too early to tell you can be taking notes, but wait until a quarter. So all that to say, if that, then at the end of that quarter, the end of that season, you just you look at three things, I would say one are, is our reach growing? Are we growing? So this is obviously like top of funnel, like those impressions, those plays, those views, that matters, but then, like in the middle of the funnel, right? Is that? How is that content performing? So it's on average consumption. How long are people sticking around? What's resonating more or not? And then are they taking that intended action of subscribing and following your show or following you on LinkedIn, if that's the call to action that you want. So all that to say, Yeah, optimize after that and say, Okay, this is what's working. This is what's not. This is what's resonating. This is what's not. Do make those decisions, those two or three decisions for the next quarter, see how that plays out. And then once it takes six months, nine months a year, to really kind of get in that flow state and kind of zero in. And then once we have clients who are in that this is consistent, we know what's working. Everything's kind of running. Some people might stay there for three years. That's fine, you know? And then when people are like, you know? What? No, I am ready to kick this into the next gear. Okay, we do anchor in that outcome. Are we here to build brand? Are we here to now shift and actually, more intentionally, drive demand through the show? That's a whole different playbook. Are we trying to get into another audience? Do you have a set vertical that we've been just really honing in on now, do we want to expand that? We're going to kind of start from scratch in that vertical or with that ICP? So there's a lot of ways to do that, right? Sometimes it means creating segmented content for that audience, right? It's giving them. This is your always on content. I always have this interview. Maybe the demand is showing that we need some shorter content from just the host. Or this episode really performed really well with this. Guess what? What if, in order to increase our audience and still continue to drive demand, we do just a mini series with them and see how that goes. A lot of times you need to invest in some paid growing organically. Takes time, right? So I say all those examples, that's a long answer, but it does take a bit to just understand what that looks like. And if you're answering these questions, are we growing? Okay, if so, where, how is the content performing, and are they taking the intended action? Those three questions will really help you inform what, what do we want to maybe do next?

Chris DuBois 19:35
Yeah. How are you measuring consumption?

Amanda Smith 19:39
Great question. So consumption is currently available through Apple. So if you have your show on Apple podcasts, there will be an average percentage that shows in those analytics. So that's something that you look at. Spotify has a way to do that now as well. And then, of course, if you are new. YouTube, you're able to see it. I would advise people, when you're looking at consumption, Apple and Spotify. Those are audio only. You're likely going to see higher consumption than you will on YouTube. What we know in the B to B space is that on the audio side of things, average consumption for B to B podcasts is around 65% so most of the time people are listening to 65% of the way through. You're doing higher than that. Amazing. We always want to be doing more. You're doing less than that. You might start thinking about, what, where are people dropping off, and how can we get to, how can we get to the meat of what we're talking about? To keep people around.

Chris DuBois 20:44
What's your assumption for why 65%

Amanda Smith 20:49
it's funny, you ask that so people are always like, how much time is the right length for a podcast? How long should it be? My answer is always however long it takes for the conversation to be had. Now I don't want to say every show should then go for an hour and a half. Sometimes that's not necessary. Usually it's not necessary because it takes people a while to warn them up. Not everybody, including myself, are trained professional speakers, so it takes us a minute to land the plane for an answer, right, or get to the actual point of what we're supposed to be talking about. That's where prep really helps in consolidating that. The biggest mistake that I see people do is they do a lot of warm up before they get to the main part of the episode. You've got 60 seconds to keep people if they're still hearing your introduction for what this episode is about, or they're hearing background information on your guests, that is completely irrelevant to the XYZ that you said was going to be delivered. A lot of times, people are going to be like, Okay, well, I haven't, we haven't gotten there yet, so I'm just gonna, I've gotta, I've gotta go quickly. Though a trend that I'm seeing across all of my clients in all industries, people are listening for anywhere between 20 and 25 minutes, like it is wild. I had a show. We were doing a strategic review, like going through all of the all the data, kind of making assumptions based on these patterns. They had episodes that were an hour long. They had episodes that were 45 minutes long. In each of those instances, the Listen time was the same. So for an hour, okay, 25 minutes. I'm bad at math, but you know, like, okay, 40% for a longer episode, but then for a shorter episode, it was actually like, 55 or 60% so you also have to take that into consideration too. So so for a few of my clients, I'm like, hey, just FYI, think there's an opportunity for us to get tighter here, because that's, let's see if that, if that works,

Chris DuBois 23:10
yeah, we're at 21 minutes now, so we gotta step up our game. Exactly.

Amanda Smith 23:14
You know what? I mean, there's even some of that stuff at the front that we could probably cut, but get to the good stuff, because that's what people are here for. Our attention spans are short. Are short. I go for a walk. I've got 20 minutes to do a loop around my neighborhood.

Chris DuBois 23:30
Yeah, that was kind of, I think the average commute was something like 30 ish minutes. And so for most people, it's like, well, they're not listening the full time because they're starting to turn things off and then get ready for work, and which is kind of why I aim to just keep these shorter. But yeah, if it's interesting that you have the data to kind of back up some of those things,

Amanda Smith 23:48
and real quick on the consumption thing too, just again, knowing who your audience is and what they might be asking, it's a podcast. Okay, let's say you only have 50% consumption. But like, it's never just a podcast. I follow podcasts, and I have never listened to a single episode of their show, but I follow them on social media, and I watch every single thing that they put out, or I've got a newsletter from a brand. I don't I actually like how they outline the takeaways from that episode, and I consume it that way, and I don't even have to listen to the full episode, but I still get the same value. I just have chosen how I want to consume that information, education, entertainment, for how it best fits my life. So I encourage people, when they're thinking about a podcast, don't just think of it as the podcast channel. Yes, we want things to be working. Yes, we want to see growth. But also, if all of your content is performing really well on LinkedIn from the podcast, that's valuable. I don't care how many people are listening to the full episode, I'm still getting what I need out of it, just in a different channel. So I. Understanding what works best for your audience behaviors and giving them multiple ways. Choose your own advantage, venture, right? Choose your own adventure. That is also really valuable. When you think about reach, how is the content performing and are they taking that intended action doesn't have to be to your podcast channel,

Chris DuBois 25:19
right? I can echo that with I have a friend who has a he asked someone, like, a very large name in his industry, if they wanted to be on the podcast. And they were like, I would love to. Like, I've Yeah, I see the clips everywhere. It's great they join. And that keeps, like, feeding everything. We were talking the other day about that, and his podcast is getting a fraction of what I'm getting for my podcast and but people know about his like, it's helping his business, doing all the things, and they're just, they're not listening. It's the value is in the clips and the insights that are coming from it. So it's crazy.

Amanda Smith 25:54
Downloads don't matter. I mean, they do, but they really don't. It's a vanity metric. It really is. Again, if I'm we're talking about anchoring back on an outcome, if I'm starting a podcast to build my brand and ultimately, you know, drive demand later on down the road, if I have 1000 people listening, but they're only consuming 10 or 15% I'm not reaching the right people. It's not doing what I want. But if I've got 50 people listening consistently, and they're consuming that content, and it's showing up, it's giving me insights into the industry, it's getting me relationships with people I want to do business with, or educating me about the audience that I'm trying to get closer to and understand. That's all valuable. I could care less about how many people actually downloaded it. Now, the Holy Grail is seeing both of those line

Chris DuBois 26:54
right? So to get your podcasts out there so that more people do know about it, whether it's the downloads or the clips or anything else you're trying to put out. Trying to put out there. What types of things are you doing for marketing in order to make that happen?

Amanda Smith 27:06
I mean, at a bare minimum, don't sleep on YouTube. Not everybody needs to have a YouTube show. And what I mean by that is super high quality video with B roll and motion graphics. And sure that might be the case for your brand, and we could talk about that, but I can guarantee you about everybody doesn't need that. And actually, even the data shows people who listen to podcasts on YouTube actually have it running in the background, or they have it minimized. They're not even actually looking at the video on the screen. So there's just some of that to take into consideration. But have it distributed on YouTube, even if it's audio only and you've got a graphic behind it. Have it there because it is where people are discovering podcasts. So that has surpassed apple and Spotify in terms of where people are finding new podcasts, so do not sleep on YouTube. Still have it for discoverability. Have it indexed as a podcast, not just a playlist, because then it will show up as other podcasts. So that's number one. And then, aside from that, just in terms of distribution, What channel are you trying to grow, or what channel is already working well in terms of where you're engaging with your audience. Again, I've got a client who, their CEO, has a really large following on LinkedIn, so we're saying, hey, you know what? We're going to use him as an activator for some of this content. Now, it's not just going to be copy and paste and hey, go check out the show like there's some tailoring there. That is a really good way for them to spread the word, because he's already got a built audience with the right ICP and who they want to be listening anyway. I've got another client who they were trying an email newsletter. It didn't work. LinkedIn was where a lot of their people were. They switched to a LinkedIn newsletter, and that has taken off. So again, it's just like again, it's experimenting, right? It's going to be different for every single brand, but there are some things that you can try. So I'm even forgetting now the original question, but distribution, don't sleep on YouTube and think about either the channel that you want to grow or that already really works for where your audience engages with you most and just leveraging it and using it more intentionally.

Chris DuBois 29:31
Yeah, I think a lot of people get stuck in the idea of, if one of my go to market motions is going to include a podcast, it's like, then I need people to just show up on the podcast and they like, Well, my audience doesn't listen to podcasts. It's like, Yeah, but all of these other ways you can be using the content, or could be valuable, you know, to what you were just saying. Where are they discovering, you know, solutions to their problems, essentially,

Amanda Smith 29:54
yeah. Do they like? Do you get a lot of blog clicks, a lot of blog consumption? Yeah. Do you have a high email newsletter open rate? Do you have social you know, it's all of that kind of stuff. The answer is yes. Then there's probably something there. Yeah, awesome. It's all about consistent messaging and keeping that narrative aligned, right?

Chris DuBois 30:17
So okay, as we start to wind down here, if you had like the 8020 rule for like the what are those few things that people should be paying attention to then, because they're just so much more important than we probably give them credit for. What would those be as it

Amanda Smith 30:37
relates to podcasting and content? Specifically, yes, yeah. It's a good question. Really make sure you know why you're starting a podcast. What do you want it to do for you? If you cannot define that and you're doing it just because your competitor is doing it, or just because you think it's the next thing to do, probably sit on that a second. The other side of that coin, though, is you might consider starting a podcast if you need to have consistent messaging across all of these different channels. A lot of things that I hear just like, either a we don't have enough content to feed, or we're just constantly spinning our wheel wheels, and we have too much content creation going on, and we're just like, disjointed so sometimes it's just valuable enough to have one place where this is coming from. So don't necessarily think about having a studio, having a list guests, or any of that kind of stuff. I mean, yes, I would recommend having a microphone if you've got a camera that is a little bit more high definition than just your computer camera, sure, but some of the best podcasts that I listen to don't have any of that, and they just are really good about defining the premise. Who is this for? This is what you're going to learn and delivering on that every single episode, and making sure that they are answering the question, What am I hoping that this does for me, and how am I measuring that? That is where you should focus, and then you only get better and refine things over time. I think people just are really trigger shy, and you don't have to spend 1000s of dollars to start at a bare minimum,

Chris DuBois 32:36
right? Awesome. So I've got two more questions for you, yeah. First one being, what book do you recommend every agency owner should read? Yeah. So

Amanda Smith 32:45
there is a book that I read early on in my career, and it is building a story brand, by Donald Miller. I'm sure a lot of your audience is familiar with him. He is a household name when it comes to marketing, content, story, so that one is really good. I would also say content. I think it's content. Inc, hang on, give me one second. Yeah. Content, Inc, by Joe Pulizzi. He also has a podcast, which I would encourage people to listen to. He talks a lot about the idea of your content doing more like and really taking it and putting it into these other places. So just for anybody trying to learn a little bit more, those are two household names that I would recommend.

Chris DuBois 33:35
They just did a sequel to. I don't know if it's an actual sequel to content Inc, Oh, nice. Called, I'm gonna give it to the guests or to the audience here. Where is it killing

Amanda Smith 33:49
marketing? Oh, interesting. Yeah,

Chris DuBois 33:52
it's a lot of they pull a lot of the insights that we got from that. And then, how was the market still changing? Where? What did they notice with people trying to like action, a lot of this stuff with content marketing. Yeah, it was good.

Amanda Smith 34:04
Anyways, last question to add that to my list. Yeah,

Chris DuBois 34:06
that's again, purely, I mean, the audience knows, because I say this probably too much like I asked that question purely for myself, so that people give me more books to read, and then I just add it to a list, and I got a running if you want

Amanda Smith 34:18
a good one, just like totally specific to podcasting and fun. It's on the wire by Ira Glass. It is a graphic novel. Oh, on podcasting, on podcasting and Ira Glass, for anybody not familiar, he is American life, host of This American Life. It's my gateway drug into the industry, as I'm sure many people also have so anyway, but this is kind of his story and the history of podcasting, but it's a graphic novel, which I think is fun,

Chris DuBois 34:49
awesome, yeah, let's check that out. Last question, Where can people find you?

Amanda Smith 34:53
Yeah, if anybody wants to connect with me, the best places on LinkedIn. You can find me at a. Amanda Smith, also our website, share your genius.com. If you want to learn more a little bit about what we do. Of course, I'm going to point you in the direction of one, one of our podcasts, which is called, wait for it. It's an annual love letter to podcasting. It's really focused on what trends have we seen over the course of the last year in podcasting and marketing and content, really breaking down some data and headlines. So if you want a deeper dive on some of the things that I just scratched the surface on, that is an episode that I would have you check

Speaker 1 35:34
out. Awesome. All right. Amanda, thanks for joining. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it.

Chris DuBois 35:42
You. That's the show everyone. You can leave a rating and review, or you can do something that benefits. You click the link in the show notes to subscribe to agency forward on sub stack, you'll get weekly content resources and links from around the internet to help you drive your agency forward you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai