Agency Forward

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Hey everyone. Today I'm joined by Jared Gibson. Jared is the co founder of outworks, a firm that helps B to B founders and executives turn their ideas into consistent trust building LinkedIn content with over 18 years in sales and marketing, Jared has a knack for helping leaders show up online in a way that actually sounds like them. So I brought Jared on because so many agency and B to B leaders struggle to stay visible without burning out. He shares how to build a content engine that's sustainable, strategic and rooted in your own voice. In this episode, we discuss why your LinkedIn profile is your digital handshake, and how to fix it, how to turn executive insights into scalable content pillars. What's working and not on LinkedIn in 2025 why founder led content isn't optional anymore and more. No one was asking for another community, but I've made one anyway. So what's different? The dynamic agency community is designed around access, rather than content access to peers who've done it before, access to experts who've designed solutions, access to resources that have been battle tested. And right now, the price for founding members is only $97 a year. Join today, so your agency has immediate access to everything you need to grow. You can join a dynamic agency dot community and now Jared Gibson,

Unknown Speaker 1:26
it's easier than ever to start an agency, but it's only getting harder to stand out and keep it alive. Join me as we explore the strategies agencies are using today to secure a better tomorrow. This is agency forward.

Unknown Speaker 1:45
What mistakes do founders make when outsourcing their content?

Unknown Speaker 1:49
Ooh,

Unknown Speaker 1:51
okay, the biggest mistake that we've seen from and I, and I'm not just saying

Unknown Speaker 1:58
like any other agency, like we see it with our company as well, is they expect the agency to do all the work. I think that's the biggest thing, is that we're hiring an agency that we're going to completely take this off of our plate, and we're going to free up all of our time. Well, a lot of that is true. You'll have a lot of your time freed up. But I always tell our clients, like, we can get you down to, like, the 10 yard line, like, right from all the work that we do in the background, the questions that we're going to ask you, like, all this stuff, but we need you to punch it into the end zone, meaning, like, this is, it's cliche to say this, because I think this rubs some people the wrong way, but it's a partnership. Like, yes, you are hiring us. We are a vendor. However, like, we're not experts in what you do. You are the expert. So you need to help guide us, right? If there's things that are top of mind in your industry, if you're going to a conference next month, or, you know, if there's something that is going on, you know, it your work right now that you we should be talking about then, then you need to bring that to the table. Don't rely on us for everything, like we can help. Like I said, get you to a certain point. And I think that I hear that story a lot with a lot of marketing agency founders that I know it is that you know their best partners are the ones that work with them and not and they don't feel like they're doing enforcing the relationship like the worst clients that we have, actually, let me rephrase that.

Unknown Speaker 3:32
The clients that are more of a challenge for us are the ones that don't do any prep work, and they just come to the table and just assume that we're going to have everything locked and loaded for them. And loaded for them, and we can it's just it's a heavier lift on our end, right? Yeah, I can echo the when I was running an agency, the clients that I enjoyed working with the most were the ones who I'd show up and they're like, Hey, we got all of these things done, and it was all supporting the same campaign we were working on. So much easier to show up and get results for you. Yeah, that's why, what our best clients are, the ones where, so we work with CEOs, the best clients that we have are the ones that have, like, a marketing lead or a growth lead, somebody on the marketing or growth team that are working as kind of that mediator between a busy CEO, right? And they're feeding us stuff. They're saying, hey, CEO has a speaking appearance next month in Austin. Let's start creating some content that can kind of seed up to that. Like, that's stuff that we never would have found out. Like, right? So having that is great for us. Yeah, I think the other element of this is, like, you can't outsource the actual thinking of like, the expertise. You guys are very good at being able to pull someone's expertise in their knowledge, but someone still has to have that knowledge and be able to like, articulate it in order to be able to use that like for you to mold it into the right content. Yep, so I'm wondering how many people are also coming in. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 5:00
Just saying, like, you know, hey, here's a pile of shit. Like, do something with it. Yeah?

Unknown Speaker 5:06
So, yes. So handing a pile of shit, we've had clients that have shown up and done no prep, meaning they haven't looked at any of the questions that we sent over to them ahead of time. So what we do is we we send them questions based on their content pillars that are top middle, bottom of funnel, focus. We send those over ahead of time, so every once in a while, we'll get a client that just doesn't have time to look at them. And so Kelly, who is one of my co founders, will kind of go just off the top of his head and like, just riff off of what we do have available. And it's a struggle. He's good at eventually getting the good content out, but it's more of a challenge to get them to

Unknown Speaker 5:45
really, you know, when they're saying, Yeah, I don't like that question. Ask me the next question. It would have been good to know that a week ago when we sent over those questions. So but we figure it out. But it's just, it's more of a challenge, for sure, and I think there's also power in knowing what questions to ask? Like, from their side, you know, we'll say, hey, this isn't a great question. Here's how I'd actually frame it, so that, yes, someone is getting the best value from this. Yes, 100% that's why having, like, I said, a marketing leader or a growth leader that can do that and pays attention to when that stuff comes over. So again, sometimes it's harder for a CEO to drop what they're doing and put that to the top of the list, where, if we have somebody else that can tell us that it is a massive, massive help for us, right? So

Unknown Speaker 6:34
as we part of the I guess the goal of content, right isn't just to attract guys and get people, like, more aware of you. They're also you're also trying to build trust with everything you're doing. How, how are you kind of leaning into that with all the content you're creating, so that, you know, there is more of, like, middle of the funnel type, like, hey, let's build trust so that we can get someone into the conversion stage. Yeah. So one of the big trust builders. I think that if we look at the way where we are with content today, the pandemic gave us, and I've talked about this before, it gave us like a sneak peek into the lives of these founders and these executives. They've got their kids running around like their pets are in the background, whatever, and so it like humanized them, and that is a big trust builder. And like, we may not think about that, but all we've known of these CEOs and these executives before is maybe their LinkedIn profile picture or pictures of them on the website, where now we're actually seeing them. We're seeing their personality. We are engaging with their personality. And a lot of founders and executives like, kind of leaned into that. So for us, it's we don't always want to talk about your domain expertise or what your company does. Like it is important to talk about your story. Stories are huge. Stories are big trust builders. So putting a you know, how did you get from where you were to where you are today, and all the landmines that you stepped on throughout the process and the shit that you swam through? Let's talk about that stuff. What did you learn from all that? That is that those are things that resonate with people, and that's what people really want to hear. And then also, like, what are we doing outside of the office? What are passions of ours? Like, do you run Ironman races or do you like, Are you a little league coach? Whatever that is like, let's bring some of that stuff in. Let's talk about that. Because that right there is humanizing you as a CEO, and it's only going to build trust and showcase your personality in a good way, where I bet your competitors are not doing this and this is going to separate you.

Unknown Speaker 8:37
I interviewed Dan Englander the episodes back, he does outreach for his podcast next week. Oh, perfect. So one of the one of the key components what he's doing, it's like, we got to find the commonalities between you and whoever you're talking to, because that's what's going to drive them to actually open it up. And just in talking to him about that, I've been thinking about a lot more in all the content I'm creating, and just not commonalities in, like, a one on one on one basis. But like, How can I be framing things in a much larger like, actually, the video that went out today talking about AI and why it's important to be very clear in your positioning. So that's what AI is going to reference when it wants to serve you up as a, you know, referral. But in the middle of it, like, my chicken started pecking at my feet and stuff. So so I, like, turn the camera. I'm like, Look, I get chickens. Like, follow me around.

Unknown Speaker 9:25
I don't know, like, it felt good, but I've had multiple people reach out and just be like, I didn't know you had chickens. And it was like, oh, completely. Like, different. Didn't pull away from the content of the video, but it did feel like something. A lot of people can't do that type of stuff, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 9:39
but, I guess,

Unknown Speaker 9:42
okay, that was one sidetrack. Now I want to get to the actual question around this. How do you pull the stories from people? Because there's so many different directions you can take. Right? Everyone's got these chaotic lives doing different things. How do you find the good stories that can actually resonate with people? Is it just like we can take.

Unknown Speaker 10:00
Any story, and we just got to frame it right and package it right? Or is it like, hey, we actually want to find these key points, because these are the ones that are going to resonate more. Yeah. So we create enough content for our clients where the store the good stories will eventually come out right. They'll come out in the line of questioning. My co founder, Kelly, who runs the interviews, does a really good job at getting people, especially early on when they don't know who we are, that well, like, yeah, they trust us to the point where they brought us in to help them with this, but they're not, like, ready to be vulnerable with a lot of these stories. So Kelly does a good job of getting people to lower their guard and just treating it like a casual conversation, and then when he's asking questions around stories, something may trigger with him, where he'll ask a follow up question to something they said, and that is the story that we ultimately were looking for. So he's got a good way to just ask the follow up questions in his interview style and process, but they're in there. I mean, we'll get them out. And, you know, a lot of times it's people like, have told him, and I've heard this in the interviews, like, didn't think that we'd be talking about that today, right, right? And that, when we hear that, that's like, Okay, well, we know that this is a good story then, and this is going to create really good content that, again, humanizes you,

Unknown Speaker 11:17
right? I like the approach too, because it's I find myself often being a talker router. Obviously, I just needed someone standing there to be a sounding board as I started just spewing everything. Oh yeah, I'm the same way. Yeah. You find those things that stick, and you're like, oh, that's That's it asking the right questions and getting you to go deeper in that, like enabling that talker outer quality. There has to be a name for that. Besides, yeah, talk about equality. No, that's good. I just went through the talker outer quality right before this call. I was on my content call with Kelly, yep. And it's like, I just, he gets you to riff and talk about things, and the next thing you know, you're like, oh shit. That was really good. I didn't think about that before you asked me that question. So it gives you a complete different like, how can I use this in multiple ways? Now, right? It's not just this story is going to be used in this one specific thing, but the moral of that story can now influence 10 different pieces of content, and you can reference back to it over time. Yeah, and my talk track, and when I talk to prospects, and when I'm out, it's speaking engagements, like, when I'm out on stage talking about it like, that's something that would be gold to bring to this type of audience. So, yeah, for sure, right? So CEOs should be creating content. I think everybody listening can probably agree to that. What are those like? Why are some still not doing it? Yeah? I mean,

Unknown Speaker 12:40
so I've heard every excuse. I'm calling them excuses in the book. You know, I don't have time to do it. It's not my job to do it. I hate social media.

Unknown Speaker 12:49
I don't know what to say. I don't know what it like, whatever it is. I've heard them all at the end of the day, it is. It comes down to just not being in their comfort zone. It's outside of their comfort zone to create content, personal content on LinkedIn or any social media platform. They're just not comfortable with a lot of them, aren't we have countless high level executives that are have exited multiple businesses that are very, very successful, and they start with us, and they wither up into a ball when we start talking about, like, this type of stuff, right? So it takes some time. It's a crawl, walk, run approach with a lot of them, but they get it, and they know they should be doing it. So I think that's it. I just think it's outside comfort zone, but with today's buyers being a younger generation kind of on social media like this is part of the buying process now. So they do know that they wield influence when they're posting this content online, and they should all be doing it, but eventually they'll get there. Is it just like a crippling form of imposter syndrome, like they've done the work, right? Like they've they have results to show for what they're they're talking about. Why not just talk about it? Yeah, it's a lot of it is. It's the same stuff like I think about when I first started posting. I'm like, I'm going to start this company. I got to be active on LinkedIn. And all the shit that was going through, these false narratives that I was creating in my head are, are the same stuff that they're feeling like, it doesn't matter if they're running a $500 million company, like, it doesn't matter. It's the same stuff. It is a little bit of imposter syndrome. It is, are people going to judge me? It is, are my buddies going to bust my balls on a text chain? It is like, are people going to disagree with me? It's all that stuff. And some of that stuff, and some of that stuff is absolutely going to happen. People are going to disagree with you, your buddies are going to make fun of you, your you know, people are going to judge you. Who gives a shit? Is what my answer to all of that is, right? But it's all of that, and imposter syndrome definitely has a big, big hand in that as well, yeah, but you bring up a good point to the market is shifting.

Unknown Speaker 15:00
Uh, where. And I'm seeing this with all of my clients as well. The what used to be like the discovery phase, like top of funnel for for the market, is almost moving platforms in some instances, and I think it's because the buyers are changing. And so as that's happening, they're going to different places for for information, whether it's what is AI or just hey, they're not looking on LinkedIn anymore. They're all going to Reddit. How do you kind of plan out where, where you should be delivering that content in order to have the most impact? Yeah. I mean, I'm a big believer in cross channel, like, spread it out, because you never know where your next buyer is going to come from. Right now, today, LinkedIn is the B to B platform. There's what, like a billion users. I think I saw that like, I think it's like 1% of people actively posts once a month. But in the US alone, there's like 38 million people that log on to LinkedIn every week. So, like, there's people still on LinkedIn as much as we want to shit on LinkedIn for whatever reason. Like the content that's there is self serving, or it's it's a cringe factor, whatever you want to call it, like it is still where decision makers are going. They may not be engaging, but they're still going there other platforms like, I'm super, I'm super interested in continuing to follow sub stack, especially right now, I think that there's a massive opportunity on sub stack, especially with their notes app, where it's basically Twitter. It looks a lot like that. So I think sub stack, there's something there. You know, they're all the Instagram X, all that stuff like their YouTube is huge right now. So I'd say, if there's an opportunity to spread that content across the board for us because of who we are, like in the B to B space right now, it's like, LinkedIn is still the number one player, but we've definitely got an eye on on other platforms.

Unknown Speaker 16:53
All right. Did that answer your question? It did.

Unknown Speaker 16:57
Yeah, I'm thinking about all the different but because, like, I'm using, like my discovery phase for clients or prospects, rather, is almost entirely through being on other people's podcasts and stages everything else I hear about me. And then they go to LinkedIn, and they start, that's where we started, the trust building LinkedIn for content sub stack, they join my newsletter, they listen to my podcast and we do that until eventually the conversion element.

Unknown Speaker 17:25
But it is part of but it is, if we think about it. So like, if our partner program is huge, we get tons of clients through our partner program, my network, we're getting clients, but it is what the part of that buying process, it's like, yeah, check out your website. I'm going to go to your LinkedIn profile, and I'm going to look at your LinkedIn profile. I'm going to look at the content you created. So I had a post today that talked about, like, impressions being down for video content right now on LinkedIn, even though LinkedIn is prioritizing video content in the video feed, impressions are still down. We're not seeing the reach that we saw when they first introduced the new video feed a few months back, when they, like, basically poured gasoline on everybody's reach, and then overnight they just pulled it away. Like, screw your dopamine hit, like you're not getting it anymore. So we're seeing impressions down on reach there. However, my post today was about like, understanding that people are still going to go to your profile, they're still going to click on your content, and they still want to see the videos. It's the same mindset that you have with your website. You're not going to put a video up on your content page, on your website, and get pissed off that you're not getting a bunch of views in the first day, right? So why aren't we starting to treat LinkedIn, YouTube, all that stuff, like the content that you're putting on their website, because it is part of the buyer journey today, so they're going to go see it eventually as part of their decision making process. So just keep putting it out there, and don't pay attention to, you know, low reach for video right now, it's still massively important that you're putting that stuff out there. I'll cite that as a reason. My post today is only doing okay. I haven't seen any. I haven't been on but I'll check it out. I want to see now. I'm intrigued to see the chicken. Yeah, see a couple chickens. Yeah. But yeah, agree. I mean, I have people going my LinkedIn and liking posts from months ago. Yes. Like, oh, I forgot I even made that. But like, finding it somehow. I don't think LinkedIn serving up two month old posts. No, you think they're going through the content and consuming what they want,

Unknown Speaker 19:27
and that should be telling, I think, for from a marketing standpoint, once something is like, kind of past that initial phase of like being shared by LinkedIn, usually a couple weeks, right? Usually you won't see anything kind of older than that still circulating. But when someone finds a post from two months ago and they like it, there was something in that post that resonated. And so is it time to republish? To take that same story, to do something with it, to put it back out there, because someone actually went through your content and said, This is worth engaging with, because most people don't engage period. And so.

Unknown Speaker 20:00
Even clicking that like button is a huge lift.

Unknown Speaker 20:05
Anyways, I want to talk authenticity, because it's something crazy. The more you you can say I want to be Yeah, I want to be authentic, but in trying to be authentic, you stop being authentic. And so how are you kind of balancing authenticity with like, the necessary strategy and everything to perform in a, b to b function. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 20:26
this, this is, this may be a blunt, but this is like, where? Because so this, this question. I've thought about this in the past, because being authentic, like, you have to be authentic. People can smell through and when you're being fake, like, people just get like they're like, Yeah, I don't buy any of the shit that you're saying

Unknown Speaker 20:44
to truly, I believe, to truly be authentic, you need to not give a shit. If that makes sense, means I don't fucking care. I do not give a shit. This is me, like I'm putting myself out there.

Unknown Speaker 20:58
You know, we have a podcast where it's called business is bullshit. And we literally, like it's not doing anything for our business, but we are our true selves on that podcast. And I think that if you go back and look at AMI content, it's, it's who I am. Like, I cuss, get over it, like, That's me. I'm not going to hold back on it. I have opinions on certain things. Like, that's so I think that if you just, if you went to it with, like, I went, I need to make sure that I'm being authentic. Okay, well, do you give a shit about what somebody else may say or think about this point of view that you have on this particular issue or the issue now we're talking politics, not politics, but, like, certain thing that's going on that's authentic. Be your authentic self. Like, don't hold back. Like, if you, if you don't feel, like, if you're putting out a piece of content that you don't feel as you then that's not authentic. Like, stop giving a shit if you're gonna, if you're like, I don't want to rub this p, this person the wrong way. Like, that's not authentic. Put it out. Yeah, I know it's a little little straightforward, but I can get behind that uh entirely. But my follow up question, I guess, so, one of the ways that I guess I'm being my authentic self is by like, I do all of my my content in one take. I don't edit my content. I get my throw captions on there. Hopefully you're editing some of this.

Unknown Speaker 22:21
We'll take out around the four minute mark, I think is what I wrote down. But the but I'm

Unknown Speaker 22:27
just doing one take, and it's like, if I screw up during it, it's like, whatever, like, who? Who cares if I fumble some words, as long as you get the point of what I'm putting out there. But at what point does the quality of your content start to suffer in like versus the authenticity or trying to put out like, is there,

Unknown Speaker 22:44
is there a point where you're like, you know what you should edit because, like, this is actually trash? Yeah, no, for sure. And I've done it. I've been there, like, where I've maybe said stuff in video or written it out and looked at it and said, this may be too much. This may be

Unknown Speaker 23:03
world is not ready. Yeah, yeah, one of those things, or it's like,

Unknown Speaker 23:11
like,

Unknown Speaker 23:13
I do believe that there is a line of things that you should be posting on LinkedIn and things you shouldn't be posting on LinkedIn, right? If your authentic self has a belief from a political standpoint of something, you should not be posting that on LinkedIn. I don't give a shit which side you're on. Like nobody. You shouldn't be talking politics on on LinkedIn, right? That's authentic, but draw the line somewhere. But

Unknown Speaker 23:37
I do think that there's that, like, there's still people that are that say, like, this is LinkedIn, this isn't Facebook. Like, keep that stuff over on Facebook. I think that that's changed. I think the line has come a lot further toward like, yeah, you can get personal on LinkedIn. You can put out personal things on LinkedIn. Is there a line? I do believe that there is a line. I do believe that there's certain things that should not be put out on social media, any social media platform.

Unknown Speaker 24:04
Is it authentic? If you put it, sure it's authentic, but it's too much. So it's just you trying to figure out where that line is that I'm talking about that's on you to try to figure that out. I'm sure that if you put enough stuff that's on the other side of the line out there, you'll probably get enough people to call your shit out on LinkedIn. There are definitely trolls on LinkedIn, just like there are on every social media platform, they'll let you know.

Unknown Speaker 24:30
Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 24:32
So I've also heard the argument that when politics affects business,

Unknown Speaker 24:39
you should take a stance and talk about it because, like, it's going to impact things, and so not talking about it, yeah, I take the side of just not talking politics. I don't I'm too middle of the road on things too. Like every, every individual issue is, I'm going to pick a stance based off what I believe is my stances are boring. My stances are.

Unknown Speaker 25:00
Worry, I'm with you. They're right in the middle. Like, what doesn't matter, yeah. But if it affects your business, yeah, I mean, but I think that there's a way that you can do it without, like, getting too political, if that makes sense, like just being angry, yes, right, right. So listen, tariffs are affecting what's going on right now with a lot of businesses, where a lot of people are potentially going to lose their jobs. A lot of companies are potentially going to shut down if this comes to fruition, the way that some people think that it's going to you should be talking about this. This is genuine. It's authentic. Like, hey, my hope is, is that this happens. It's if they come to integrate whatever that is. Like, I want to keep the doors open. We're doing a lot of good work, but a lot of our shits coming from China. We can't afford to stay open right now, if this is what's going to happen, right? That's authentic, not being angry and calling certain people out in the political sense, like that is just, that's what. Again, that's where I think I draw the line from the political standpoint. Yeah, that's a good

Unknown Speaker 26:02
I agree with the I mean, I have a client in the DTC space, or agency or DTC brands, and so tariffs are impacting them, but it's like, well, we can get angry about it, or we can figure out, how do we stay afloat right now with this and talk about what we can control. Yep, and like, that feels like a more optimistic and appealing story for people to follow than just, yeah, you know, railing on, yeah. I mean, you can actually influence. Think about, like, I mean, think back to 2020 like, during COVID and all that. Like with I can't the amount of shit that I saw on LinkedIn of people bitching about masks and all this stuff. And it's like, Listen, you can have an opinion on that, whatever it is. But like, what do you know that, like, you're angering half of the people in this like, on this feed right now? Like, just keep that's the type of stuff. Just keep that to yourself, right? And I'm just using that one as an example. But there's many more that you could probably pull Yeah. So let's, let's shift away from dangerous grounds. Yes, thank you.

Unknown Speaker 27:00
How do you how do you measure the success of founder, like, content, hmm, so that's like the million dollar question. And I actually talked about this recently, where I think there's a lot of leading indicators that you should be looking for, the lagging indicator depending on like, what your goal is like. So some of our clients goals are like, Hey, I just need to stay top of mind. I just want to just want to create content. I'm the CEO of this business. It's only going to do good if I do this. I'm not trying to generate meetings for myself as the CEO of this company. Great. Other people like, yeah, my goal is to generate conversations. I need to figure out how to have conversations from this content that we're creating. Right? So there's ways that we can do that. We can, you know, do ads. We can create lead magnets and, you know, get people to and we can track traffic back from LinkedIn to the landing page for that lead magnet, whatever that is. There's different ways that we can do that, but it comes down to generating conversations. Like, how do we have conversations? So I think one thing that people often don't think about is, like, what content is doing from a sales pipeline acceleration standpoint, like it's it's accelerating the pipeline. It is part of the buyer journey that we've talked about. We beat that thing to death. But people are going and doing their research, and they want to see that you know what you're talking about, right? So unless you're asking people, when you jump on a phone call with them, Hey, did you have a chance to check out my content? You're not. They're not going to tell you that, right? They're not going to say that. Like, yeah, I've been following your content for a little bit. We didn't have this pain, but now we have it, unless you're asking. So it's tough to track some of this. I think there's a lot of leading indicators. Like, you know, we the entity metrics. We can talk about impressions, we can talk about engagement. We can talk about all that stuff. Is it engaging with the right people? Are we starting to see second degree people that you're not connected to engaging with your content? I think that's important. Are you hearing people talk about your content outside of like the internet, like when you're out and about. We had a client. I'll read this to you because it was I just brought it up on our last call. I'm not gonna read it to you in detail, but we had a client that sent this text message to Kelly, who's one of my co founders. At an event tonight, I had three people come up to me and talk to me about how fan fucking tastic my LinkedIn social media account is, and they loved my approach. They were really, really. They loved how I was direct and spoke to the camera. And they had, they loved it, all this stuff. And one of our vendors wants me to help create training content for their online that saw me on LinkedIn. You know, I've been invited to podcast. So it's stuff like that that you start to like hear as well, where you know that you're headed in the right direction with it.

Unknown Speaker 29:43
There's other motions that need to be put into place. If we're talking about like, how do we actually generate conversations content? A lot of times, not gonna do that alone. You need to be engaging with other people's content. You need to be figuring out a DM strategy that's genuine and that can be the Signal and the Noise. It's not spammy. Like.

Unknown Speaker 30:00
You're vying for attention. So we need to make sure that, like, if we're doing that, we're doing that the right way. Video, personalized video, just boom, shoot it one. Take send it over to somebody. Don't try to pitch them on what your services are. Find something about posts that they had. Hey, you know, Chris, really liked that post you had about so and so. Actually, funny story that happened to me a few weeks ago. Not sure why I'm telling you, but I'm telling you love to connect sometime and wrap through it in more detail if you're around, boom, yeah. Done. Send it like that is, like, just genuine, like authentic, a way to DM somebody. It's just people look for the easy button and just set a bunch of BS automation. Yeah? So yeah,

Unknown Speaker 30:43
long answer, yeah, but you just got me thinking about someone else. So obviously, when you're creating great content, it will speed up your entire pipeline, because there's more trust built, right? They can move faster. They know what you do. Hopefully you can get through all that, but it's probably impossible to actually measure this. But from the time on, first discovering you to time booking a call, like good content speeds that up as well. And so, like, your the rate at which someone goes from, oh, I now know you're you're a solution to, hey, let's chat. You can speed that up too. Now you're filling your pipeline at a faster frequency as well. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 31:22
there was a, this was, like, years ago. I think it was Sharon travata, super interesting follow up for like, business minded guy. But he, he talked about your time on brand, where there's a certain amount of time on average that people are going to spend with your business, like learning about it before booking that call. And so it could be like, once you figure it out across all your assets. Let's just for simplicity, say it's five hours that could be, you know, like a handful of 30 minute podcasts, your two minute linkedins, your bunch of shorts. And if you can kind of piece together, like, how long do people actually need? Because they could just be consuming 10 really long blog posts, and that's all they needed in order to get to us. When you start thinking about it like that, it's like, how do I now maximize the time that someone is with my brand so that I can shrink that time required? Yeah? Or make this happen, and I think you guys are on it with the type of content you're creating, so yeah, but it's good. I mean, it's the same thing like we used to do. I mean, not used to do. It's still like, how many touches does it take for somebody to recognize your brand? Yeah, and then, so I think that there's steps leading to it as well. Like, recognize your brand. It's because you could send out how many messages. I think back in the day it was like, I don't know the stats updated stats on this, but you know, part of the sequences, like, it takes 24 touches before somebody responds back to you, or whatever that is. Like, I don't know if that's the same anymore, but like the whole predictable revenue model was based on all of those touches that need to happen before somebody says, yes, let's have a conversation. Me, it's annoying as shit, is the buyer, but

Unknown Speaker 32:53
that's part of it. Just is what it is.

Unknown Speaker 32:56
Feels annoying as the seller as well, does.

Unknown Speaker 33:01
It does. I can't play it. Play that type of game anymore, but it's tough. All right, Jared, I got two more questions for you. Let's do it. First one being, what book do you recommend every agency owner should read? Who I'm gonna cheat and say two books, because I think the agency piece of it for me was the book that I read,

Unknown Speaker 33:23
I'm gonna go,

Unknown Speaker 33:25
Okay, so the book I read that really helped from a marketing agency perspective, because my backgrounds in sales. I've been in sales my entire career, and I switched over and led a marketing team, and I use a lot of my sales background to lead to think of it for with a different hat on, like I didn't go approach it with just marketing. And the book that I read that really kind of shaped a lot of my thought process, from a marketing standpoint, is they ask you answer by Marcus Sheridan, Yep, great book. I've read it a few times. That's a lie. I've listened to it a few times now.

Unknown Speaker 33:59
So, great book, but the other piece, the other book that I will always go back to being an owner of a business, and it's just the roller coaster rides that you go to, the obstacles that you see as obstacles the way, the obstacles the way is like, it puts things into perspective. Yeah. I mean, it's such a good book, and I've read ego as an Ego is the Enemy. It's good too, but like, obstacles away. It's just that one that just got me, like, stop fucking bitching. Like, stop, just figure it the fuck out. Like, get around it. Like, Yes, times are tough, or you had a shitty week. Like, figure it out. Like, there's there's something, there's an angle that you can go that is the right way to go. You just need to figure it out. So I think that that having that mindset and in that book really, really helped me, for sure. Awesome. Last question, Where can people find you?

Unknown Speaker 34:49
The Internet, anywhere on the internet, just google me. Google me. Now my LinkedIn is a good way. There's a link to my calendar. I.

Unknown Speaker 35:00
Uh, right below my headline on LinkedIn, so anybody can throw some time on my calendar to talk through some of this stuff. Yeah, I would say that's the best website to outworks.io.

Unknown Speaker 35:09
Is our website? Um, but yeah, not, not hard to find. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but not hard to find. Yeah, that's a good thing in today's market. It's a good thing. Well, awesome. Thanks for Thanks for joining. Yeah, Chris, awesome. Thanks for having me.

Unknown Speaker 35:29
That's the show everyone. You can leave a rating and review, or you can do something that benefits. You click the link in the show notes to subscribe to agency forward on sub stack, you'll get weekly content, resources and links from around the internet to help you drive your agency forward. You.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai