Agency Forward

Chris DuBois 0:00
Hey, everyone today, I'm joined by Dylan Chacho. Dylan helps agencies escape the LinkedIn content trap and generate leads by reframing their messaging around a niche strategic problem. He is the creator of niche content boosting, which is a paid strategy that helps expert agencies consistently get in front of decision makers even when your organic reach is starting to fall flat, Dylan works with those B to B service firms to define like category level problems that position them as the only solution. So we have a lot of overlap between how we're thinking about this. I've had Dylan on before and I wanted him as a return guest, because I think there is so much value to be shared with agencies in his approach, most agency content just blends in, and Dylan offers a proven method to actually stand out and drive action. In this episode, we discuss why most LinkedIn content fails to convert, how to position yourself as the only solution turning symptoms into high converting problem, posts and more. No one was asking for another community, but I've made one anyway. So what's different? The dynamic agency community is designed around access, rather than content, access to peers who've done it before, access to experts who've designed solutions, access to resources that have been battle tested. And right now, the price for founding members is only $97 a year. Join today, so your agency has immediate access to everything you need to grow. You can join a dynamic agency dot community, and now Dylan Chacho, it's easier than ever to start an agency, but it's only getting harder to stand out and keep it alive. Join me as we explore the strategies agencies are using today to secure a better tomorrow. This is agency bullet, all right, Dylan, what have you been up to since, uh, our last podcast?

Speaker 1 1:59
Uh, what have I been up to? When was the last, last time we talked? That was a year ago. Yeah, oh, my God, was it already close? Yes, back then, I was working at a at a video content agency. Since then, I've gone out on my own. I think an interesting thing. I think a great segue into talking about what we're going to talk about is that, I think we found a really great problem to solve with our service, and we did some really great positioning. Got the POV down, we knew what was the message we were going to put out, and we were putting out LinkedIn content all about that, and I felt really good about it. And I think we got one lead from posting, like, four months or something, complete, utter failure, failure. In my opinion, that's how I felt, better than most, that's how I felt. And it really dawned on to me, what I called the LinkedIn organic reach gap, is that if you are not connected with your ideal client, it doesn't matter how great your message is. I and we were targeting CMOS, of these big companies, and I'm connected to just agency founders. And so there's a big gap between that and the LinkedIn algorithm. It's network based. It's not like Tiktok or Instagram, that's interest based. And so that was a huge realization that you can have a great message and it just doesn't get in front of people. And so then that led me to try to figure it out, and I figured it out and created niche content boosting to solve that problem.

Chris DuBois 3:57
Yeah, so that's the man the number of people who believe LinkedIn is like, a discovery platform is like, baffled me. And I was, like, just thinking about it, and like, nobody's going into LinkedIn and typing in a search, right? For, like, for their problem, they're doing it in Google AI, maybe the even like podcasts, right? They'll, you'll find a podcast, and you'll scroll through everything to find the one that's current, like the episode that kind of fits your current problem, you found a way, essentially, to turn it into a discovery platform by boosting the content that you actually want people to see, which is why, so obviously, that's a huge benefit for the people who are like, Well, I'm doing all my link marketing on LinkedIn, but I'm not getting that engagement. It's like, well, if you just do some of this now, your platform that you've already been committed to, right, actually becomes valuable, yeah, so I guess you want to walk through some of your some of your process for Yeah.

Speaker 1 4:52
Well, I think the first thing I'll say is that to solve that, that LinkedIn getting rich. Gap problem. Essentially, you can do content boosting, but that's different from niche content boosting. I want to differentiate those two, because content boosting is simply putting money behind what you're already putting out. The best practice content is sharing your advice, showing your expertise, building trust, what people usually think of as good content. And what you'll find is, if you actually boost that to a cold audience, it is probably going to do the same thing, and it's not going to get you anything, at least not at a profitable rate. And the reason for that is because if you put out that content, and this is we're gonna get into the message in content, most conventionally good content, gets you seen as just another potential solution. It gets you seen as interchangeable in several ways, because you can show your thoughts on your hot takes on marketing, your opinions on marketing. People think, okay, you're just another marketing industry expert. I know 50 on LinkedIn. So they think, okay, maybe I can reach out to this person eventually. Or, you know, you talk about your benefit, the benefits of your service at the end of your post and your call to action. I could get you know better leads, more growth, more revenue. I can get that in so many different ways. Why would I go to you? So there's all these different the content we put out normally is not a very motivating, but motivating message, and so niche content boosting is where you focus on a strategic problem that you can position yourself as the only solution. And that's that's what makes it a profitable thing to put money behind. This is when you're seen by a niche audience as the only solution, then people will actually take inbound action

Chris DuBois 7:02
preach. Yeah, I fall into this rut where I just believe everyone has the same thought pattern that we do, where it's like they're marketing the problem not just what they do, but it's very obvious once you go through, start scrolling through LinkedIn for a little bit, and you can see like, oh no. Most people don't have that, that thought pattern. So what's How do you decide which like of the because, like, ideally, right? You're you are doing all of your posts through like, with like, a problem focus. How do you decide which of those posts to now actually boost?

Speaker 1 7:44
Well, I would actually just do it completely separately, like right now, I'm not posting organic. Well, I have to post organically to then boost it, but I'm only posting organically to then boost it. So the process that you need to go through for this is one ask yourself what category you're currently doing, and you can simply say, what is the wrong approach that people are taking in this category. Let's say you're doing, you're a franchise marketing agency. I'll use a client example. You're a franchise marketing agency. There's tons of those, and so you find the strategic problem is what I call it, the wrong approach that's taken in that category, where you can position yourself as the the only solution to that problem. So you're creating a sub category. So one client, for example, found that the problem with most franchise marketing that category was that it was fragmented. Franchisee locations are doing their marketing all separately. So he gave that name fragmented franchise marketing, which made his category, unified franchise marketing the obvious solution to that. I won't get into the details about the the symptoms that are caused by fragmented franchise marketing, but you have to define this, this problem that makes your new category the only obvious solution to that, because then you're forcing a choice. Okay, do I want just another franchise marketing agency, which is just gonna know it's fragmented, so I see the problem with that. Well, now I obviously should do unified franchise marketing, and I only know one person that's offering that, so I'll go to them. So you're it's not really you getting seen as the only solution. It's your category that's getting seen as the only solution. And so once you can kind of define all of this, you know, your POV, your category, then you can make the content about that problem, and then send them to a page that kind of educates a little bit more. On that problem situation and how it's solved.

Chris DuBois 10:05
Yeah, what I appreciate about the approach is like, everyone assumes word of mouth marketing just means people are talking about you. But reality, if you can get people talking about the problem in the way that you're framing the problem, they're going to only find you as a solution because you packaged it that way. And so it's like, not only now can people still talk about you, but they can also talk about the problem, go search and find you in the same path. So you've now, like, opened up the ability to get referrals, and just like some of that word of mouth traffic into your business through picking a problem, and actually, like honing in on that, one of the things I've noticed across all my clients content, it's like, we're trying to market the problem do everything. And I've realized marketing the symptoms as the hook to then introduce the problem is, is what's working the best, right? Because nobody's waking up in the morning and saying, like, Oh, this is my core problem. They're like, No, they notice x, y and z that they're feeling right now. And then we get to come in and open their eyes to whatever that problem is. So problem is. How are you seeing that play out with some of your own content? I

Speaker 1 11:07
think we have the same brain man. That is exactly how I look at it, what I'm calling a niche problem post, because I've when I used to just say, all right, you're doing LinkedIn content. You're making a LinkedIn content, you're making a LinkedIn content, LinkedIn posts. People perceive that in a certain way. There's already certain interpretations of what that is. And so I've had to it's not like that. It's not going to be whatever your advice or hot takes. It's going to be this way. And so this way, each problem post, the way I found that it should be framed essentially, yeah, you're starting with those symptoms. That's what they care about, is the top five most painful, visible, identifiable struggles that they have. Then you're going into their situation. It has to be starting where they are. You have to meet them where they are, and empathize about it and show kind of get in their heads like you think it can be solved this way, you think this, these symptoms can be solved this way or that way or that way, but it can't. It actually all comes down to this one root cause, and it's this wrong approach. And if you can kind of simplify it and give it a name that's helps them be like, oh shit, I'm doing fragmented franchise marketing. Okay, wow, that's what's causing all these things that I care about, that I'm struggling with every day. And so now you can kind of see, if I continue down this path, doing this wrong thing, I'm going to end up in this feared destination, and there's and then at the end of the post or presenting the solution. But these posts, I think 80% of the post is talking about that problem, because it's usually a bit complex. It's non obvious, so you have to kind of walk them through and connect those symptoms with that root cause, which is the wrong approach. So I totally agree that that's how you make those posts? Yeah,

Chris DuBois 13:02
yeah. How do you go about? So I've been on the fence on this one, so maybe you can just get me on off the fence and onto one side. I try to avoid talking about the solution, or my solution specifically within the post. Right? I'm hoping that by talking about the problem with such clarity, people just assume I have the solution in that, and it's intriguing enough that and like, I've highlighted this problem that's painful enough that they want to learn more. And so rather than just saying, like, Hey, here's the solution, here's what you need, and like, go do all this. It's just like, No, start that. DM, right? Like, or go connect with me on these platforms. What's your thought around that? Like,

Speaker 1 13:42
yeah, I think, I think I used to think in a similar way. To be honest, I'm starting to think that it needs to be very clear what that category of solution is, again, just a really simplified I mean, the categories is just how we think about things, and yes, if we frame the problem in a clear way, it should be pretty obvious of what that solution is and that you're the one that knows how to solve it. But I think people are kind of in autopilot mode on LinkedIn, and they're not really putting in a lot of effort. And I think that that's a little bit too much effort, is to jump to that conclusion, because a lot of people can, you know, complain and talk about problems on LinkedIn and not necessarily have a specific solution to it. So in every one of these posts we're at the end, we're very clearly saying you need this category of solution. You need unified franchise marketing, you need patient journey conversion optimization. You need collaborative design, whatever that is. So they can kind of tangibly like, oh. So this is a different thing that I didn't realize I needed. And then that's where you send them to the niche offer page where you're talking about that problem and how that category solves it.

Chris DuBois 15:14
All right, that's my content for the week. I'll get get a clear solution into into everything. I think the other, okay, so there's two things that I'd like to get into, just gonna pick one. So the first, how do you once you show someone that this is the way, right? And they see results, for example, actually, we both know this guy. I'll save his name for later, and we can talk after the thing, I had written a LinkedIn or a sub stack post about why your content might not be working. And essentially it was this, right, you're not talking about the problem all this. And he had replied to that post. You're saying, like, yeah, actually points three and four. Like, really resonated. I think it's happening. And so I just looked at his content like, well, this is what you're doing. And I happened to be on vacation at the time when I was doing this, but, like, what? What's a vacation when you don't get to do the fun stuff, right? And I came, I was, we're on a cruise. I was in the sauna, came out, and I got in the cold plunge, and I wrote him two posts just while sitting there, within the five minutes that I'm sitting in this cold plunge. And he finally put those up, and they've gotten, like, three times his normal engagement for any content, because we led with the problem, like we had hit a symptom that people were facing, talked about the problem, and all of his content since then has been what he was already doing, like the previous stuff he was doing. And just like, Why? Why do people, like, default right to what they think works rather than following the data? In a situation like this, it's like, look how much more engagement you got. Impressions were up. Engagement was up. I don't know. It probably didn't drive any conversations, which maybe that's the reason why, like, he didn't continue doing it, because they're, you know, if we, if we can't directly tie it to revenue, it's hard to say, like, Well, yeah, I'll keep doing that, but obviously there's a consistency issue, then we need to keep publishing in order to make that happen. Yeah? Psychological question that I don't know. Maybe it took psychology in college or something. Why are people structured that way?

Speaker 1 17:18
Oh, man. Well, I don't know if I can answer that, but what I think I can answer, which is take us on a similar path, right? Let's do it, because I know who you're talking about, and I actually talked to him today. Oh, perfect. And we were talking about his content, and, oh, it's so interesting because we had, he had found the niche strategic problem, and we had defined the painful symptoms from the strategic problem, where his approach was The only obvious solution to it, really good, clear POV, and then it wasn't getting reflected into his organic content. Because, and this is just a psychological thing, he knows so much that he starts talking about every different problem under the sun that could be in any department of the business. It's they're so big. And what he's saying is true, but it's not coming down to that one strategic problem. And I think that's, that's the thing is that we can talk about a ton of different symptoms, but there's so if I went around saying, talking about, as a doctor, you know, headaches and and, you know, hip pain or whatever, and I can't, like, draw it, connect it to this one root cause. No one's going to see my pill as the solution to it. There's so many different ways to solve these different pain points, and so that's really why I encourage and I make it mandatory for the clients to give a name to that strategic problem that the wrong approach of doing things, and then just keep talking about that, because if you start talking about every pain that you see in your client's business, they won't see you as the only solution. And so you have to pick the few that are directly related to this wrong approach that they're using to then position your, your approach, as the only solution to that. And so, I think, and we talked about it, and he was like, Yeah, this is this, is this? Is it? It's just that it's so easy to get carried away. When you're you're the expert. It's you, it's hard to see things. From outside of your perspective, the curse of knowledge. So you want to talk about everything you see so many problems, it's hard to keep talking about that one thing, especially in organic, because you're writing it every day, and you're like, I'm tired of this. I said it already so many times. Yeah. And so that's another thing about the boosting, is that I, when I was doing organic, I would, I would get into the nuances, because I was so much fun, and that was the only way I could motivate myself to put out the organic content. But now that I know it's gonna be boosted, I say the exact same thing, slightly different angles, but I'm talking about the same wrong approach, interchangeable lead gen, and I just put that into everything. So that way you're consistently talking about the same core problem, because that's what a POV outline is supposed to do. It's supposed to make sure that your messaging is consistently marketing the same problem.

Chris DuBois 20:50
Yeah. Then that that boredom,

Unknown Speaker 20:52
boredom is real.

Chris DuBois 20:53
It is real, right? Like, where you're just like, Man, I'm so tired of talking about the same thing, but it's like, but that's what's going to bring someone in, and then once they're in, like, you can talk about whatever else they need, right? But, like, that core problem, I actually had a client yesterday where we have, we've come up with their problem, actually, I can share it on here, so the it's their website agency, right? Building websites, and we talked about design drift, how your website is continuously looking more more or less and less, I guess, like your website ever like as every month goes on, because marketers are building pages right designers going in and changing something, but it's not reflected on every other page at your site. And they're reliance on a developer in order to come in and fix all of these things and get it straight. And so their solution is doing a content library, essentially, like they've coined a term to their their business and stuff. It all, all works out. But a lot of companies aren't coming in just thinking, like, oh, I have design drift. Like, yeah, that's it. It's like, we got to talk about the symptoms. Where they're saying, hey, I need a new website. Hey, my sales team is embarrassed to send people to my website right? So now they can't use it as an asset. Like, there's so many other symptoms that are coming up. Like, we can talk about all of those symptoms, that's the fun of the contents. Like, bring up the symptom, tie it back to the problem, so that they can see it. And now everybody who's coming in is potentially seeing what they need to but you're only reaching what 5% 10% maybe with your of your audience at any given time. I mean, I just, I just hit 6000 Thank you. Thank you for followers. Proud of it, but most of my posts are getting less than 1000 impressions, and so it's like, so I'm not even hitting. I'm not hitting anywhere near like my follower saturation for this. And so I have to keep publishing the same thing every day, right in order to get that result. And so I wish people would just pick up on that, those numbers,

Speaker 1 22:49
yeah, well, I think it's also for you and me. I think we have less of the organic reach gap problem because we're targeting agency founders. They're fucking everywhere on LinkedIn, so we're all connected to them, and they're connected to other agency founders. And so that's how it works. First connection, second connection, yes, also followers, but whoever engages with you, it then our post then gets shared, shown to some of their followers or connections. But a lot of agencies, they could get 1000 impressions. They could be targeting VPs of sales. There's very little chance that they're getting in front of those people. I don't think people realize that I looked at one client with their connections to see if their ICP was in their connections with LinkedIn Sales Navigator, 00, of that, and they were posting every day. And I was like, Well, yeah, you can have the great message, doesn't matter. And so if you looked on LinkedIn ad campaign manager and you put in the ICP and see the total number of audience, it was like 7000 in the whole world. And it's like, there's, well, a billion people on LinkedIn. There's no chance you're gonna get in front of those people, right? Organic, well,

Chris DuBois 24:14
and even so say, like, assume the 95 five rule, right? Like, only 5% of that 7000 is currently looking for a solution, yeah. And so, like, now your numbers, even small people are just going to blow past that, because they don't care right now, yeah. And so, like, Yeah, it's crazy. Small numbers,

Speaker 1 24:29
yeah, yeah. It is working so hard. And that's what's that's what's great about this niche content boosting is that you can use similar principles from we've all learned from content marketing is just a little bit more guaranteed, like for example, that you can have a few 100 people that you're targeting on there and just keep retargeting and you show them. A whole batch of, you know, eight, eight niche problem posts where it's very clearly hitting that same core problem, but from simply different angles. And it's doing what I call the bridging the perception gap. You know, you see the problem one way. They don't see that problem, and that's why you value the solution, but they don't oversee the value. So the more visible that problem is, the more they're going to value the solution. And so what you're doing is you're just showing this batch, rotating those ads, you know, automatically in front of that that audience. And they could be VPs of, you know, huge companies that know you because they see you every day. And it's, it's so much cheaper than people realize, like some of these, these clients are, you know, for 1000 impressions. It's like 2020, bucks of VPs of these huge companies. I don't think people, I don't want to, you know, tell too many people, otherwise they're gonna start doing it and make things more expensive for us. But

Chris DuBois 26:01
definitely the challenge with throwing budget at anything like that, it's like the cost will only go up, and so you got to get in there and get as efficient as you can fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess what is the average budget that you're you're putting behind?

Speaker 1 26:15
Yeah, I think I start small. I've seen really good results with 600 a month. Seriously, because it's again, the budget you need depends on how well defined that problem is, how well they are able to understand it, diagnose themselves with it, see how it's causing their symptoms, how well you can be positioned as the only solution your category as the only solution to that problem. How expensive that audience is. VPS are going to be more expensive than managers, whatever. But also you need the niche offer page that walks everything through. It's a, you know, very long form. I think some people think you just boost the post and people send you DMS, and that's just not enough, because your offer is never connected to the problem, um, so, yeah, I've the first client I did this with, they were the one that actually helped me discover how this worked. 10 booked calls for $120 each of CEOs of franchises where the deals were up to 300,000 in monthly recurring revenue. I don't know what the ROI is, because I don't think my brain can actually pretty fucking good. Yeah. And so that that to me, that blew my mind, is it's like, it's people think LinkedIn ads is expensive because they apply LinkedIn ads strategies. And so that's why I can't call it LinkedIn ads, niche content boosting different approach. When it's that niche, it can be really, really cheap.

Chris DuBois 28:07
Yeah. How do you how do you go about building out the your audience profiles for targeting? Because, like, I've had some clients who one specific way that I'm thinking about where we knew exactly who they're targeting. They've been successful like they had, you know, plenty of clients over the years. The challenge was that every client that they had, not everyone, but most of them had a different title for the person that they were directly working with, who was either the champion or decision maker. And so it's like, okay, well, we can't use right? If we use that title, we're cutting out a huge portion of the market, but that title in another company might not actually be the one making those decisions. And so it was really hard, like, we don't know how they self identify, and so we almost had to shift how we were marketing within that in order to do anything. So I guess, how do you approach?

Speaker 1 28:51
Yeah, that one is, that one is, that's a tricky one, huh? Yeah. I mean, what's great is you can segment the audiences so you can test the two. Yeah, I don't like to say that you can draw too many conclusions. I think people have a tendency to draw too many conclusions, you know, like, Oh, these people are clicking a bit more. So these it resonates more, but that there's so many other factors that go into it. But if one is like consistently going to your offer page, you know 10 times more than the other, you can probably rest assured that's a better audience to target.

Unknown Speaker 29:41
But what? So that's my answer to that question. But I will say that

Speaker 1 29:47
another problem that people find is that with LinkedIn targeting, there's very limited options of industries, and so a big part of this is niching down by the problem. But also the person the industry and what I've been working on this, I'm not I'm no expert in it, but I've found that clay, you know, the list builder, similar to Apollo, it is incredible. On Exporting Company lists, contact lists that are extremely niche, like one client, pet brands. It's like you can't do that with LinkedIn targeting companies doing Dei, you know, Clay gives you so many options with with their AI, whatever to help. So you just get these kinds of companies

Chris DuBois 30:43
right, export that list, load it for a lookalike audience

Speaker 1 30:47
and not look alike. You can just upload the company list into LinkedIn, and then you can actual companies, yeah, and then you can filter by the job title. So it's like, you want do VPs of these companies in this department. Gotcha.

Chris DuBois 31:02
Yeah, that's way more,

Unknown Speaker 31:04
like, way more play

Chris DuBois 31:07
around with clay. Have you ever tried this for for, like, a specific campaign? I guess so. Like, well, now I'm thinking about how I could use this. I'm going to be launching a couple cohorts at the end of August, and so could I just run the same I mean, it's the same problem that I solve for everybody, right? So it's not like I'm changing my content up, but I'm just promoting into a specific landing page in order to get people joining that cohort. Have you ever maybe tried any specific campaigns like that, or has been more general? Hey, this is the problem we solve. Like, here's how you can work with us. Yeah,

Speaker 1 31:41
I've only, I've only done it that way, whereas this is the problem. Go to the niche offer page where there's, you know, breaks down audience profile situation.

Chris DuBois 31:50
I'll give you big the So, yeah, time based definitely,

Speaker 1 31:54
definitely go for that. I think one client has made me rethink about the booking a call thing, because, you know, that's a that's a big commitment. And I have found, well, I do think that if they see you truly as the only solution to their many symptoms, they're motivated enough to book a call. But in some cases, what makes it work better, I found, is where that book a call can be perceived as a little bit more valuable. And so this client was basically doing free video ideas or something. It's just it's a stronger magnet to kind of get them on. I from my own, I'm doing a success fit call where it's basically the first step we have to take anyway. So you kind of get a free sample of my work. I make sure that it's actually going to work for you. So I found that works, but that's something I'm exploring, but you might

Chris DuBois 32:55
Yeah, across all my clients that the book and a call page is one of like, the contact page is one of the first things we revamp, because everything on your website should be pushing someone to book a call, right? We can do all the mass marketing that we want, but when we can get someone on the phone and go one to one, we're going to be more successful. So we're addressing their objections. And so we create and we craft the page to sell that call, even if it is just a hey, let's just see if we're a fit for each other, right? It's like, you got the headline, you got success bullet like this. What you're gonna walk away with? Here's the testimonial from someone else who just talking about the call that we've been on, right? And we're just pushing people to sell this, and that's been successful for increasing our book trades.

Speaker 1 33:38
I like that kind of perceived risk go down with a little testimonial just for the call. I like that.

Chris DuBois 33:44
Yeah, that one. So I figured that one out while we had a client, when I was running an agency, and we're running the same play, like, how do we sell the call? So they were a SaaS product. It's like, how do we just get more people wanting to book it? And in talking with some people on their sales team, realized one of them saved some small business $17,000 in his first year just from the call. She noticed something he was doing wrong, and said, Oh, don't do that. You're wasting money. He fixed it for a small business like 17,000 huge and so, so we got that guy to give us a testimonial. We threw that on the on the page, and bookings went up. So it's like, okay, how can we replicate this across all of our clients and and that's it. And so like, even on my landing page, I got a video of a client who, even when we were doing discovery, I gave him some advice for a deal he was trying to work out, and he ended up closing that deal that he thought was lost. He closed it for 20k more than he expected. So I'm like, Hey, man, can I actually get you to just like, talk about that, and, and so, yeah, have that as a video. Now, that's cool. Yeah, selling the call super important. I like that. Yeah, all right. Where else can we go with this? I feel like this is a, oh, man,

Speaker 1 34:57
I've been i. Actually recently redone my positioning a little bit, and this is a classic positioning problem, is that part of it is seeing things from other perspective, and when you're doing it yourself, it's so hard to get out of your own head. So I didn't really discover this until later, but I was kind of focusing on the problem with content, and people just saw me as just another lead, like, if they saw the problem with content, but they would, I'll just go do cold outreach or something. I was like, wow, fuck all. Right, I'm not actually getting seen as the only solution here. Yeah. So I recently found that I need to frame the problem strategic problem with most lead gen, because that's the bigger overarching category that I'm in and showing the problem with the different lead gen so interesting I've I see it so clearly now. I've struggled so long to talk about this. But you know, talking about benefits, talking about pain points, talking about your service, trying to show your expertise, these four things it is we've been taught, we've been taught to talk about all these things, but it gets us seen as interchangeable. Because, you know, there's so many different solutions to pain points. There's so many different ways to achieve these generic benefits. There's so many, you know, others in your category of server service. There's so many other industry experts. It's so interesting that I don't see too many people talking about this stuff, you know, besides you or Nick, or, yeah, Nick Bennett category pirates, right? Yeah, yeah.

Chris DuBois 36:51
And it's interesting. So I've been doing with my newsletter, one I've started getting since switching to this format, I have been getting more replies to my newsletter than, like, ever before, which I didn't even know people do. I've never done that. I've never, like, reach out and like, hey, I really like this newsletter, but I'm just prioritizing frameworks. But my structure for all of them is problem, insight, outcome, solution. And so, you know, problem, like, let's lead with that, right? And it's usually the symptom, then we're getting into the problem, but then I'm pulling some insight from working with clients. With clients, something that I have knowledge of, that they don't currently have. Give that insight, and then let's highlight the outcome that everybody actually wants to achieve. And so if that problem resonated, and the outcome resonated, it's like the solution isn't obvious, like, you're going to want this, and the solution is always a framework that they could deploy immediately. And just shifting to that for my newsletter has been like crazy for I mean, my unsubscribes are down, engagements up. Like, the people who have since switching, who have now opened one and saw it, are opening the next one. And so I'm approaching like 70% open rates, but it's yeah, just great for the formatting. But I don't have to talk benefits. I don't have to talk like, have to talk like all the standard stuff. I just, I like that format and that I can just quickly deploy for a newsletter.

Speaker 1 38:07
That's good. I'm trying to I'm trying to explore. I've I'm very grateful to say this. I haven't really needed any kind of newsletter or nurturing. The call is just kind of come, but I, but I know that's never been like that. It feels it feels good. But I'm now trying to, okay, okay. I need to increase the price here, but I want to make sure that I'm they're more educated on on this, and they have more buy into it. And so now I'm trying to figure out kind of a nurture email, but in a way that still follows the same process, where we're still talking about the same core problem, so that after my first call, you know, if they don't close their or even a couple of days before that call, they're getting a deeper understanding of this problem, and because they can see a few of my boosted posts and my niche offer page, but there's still so much that they don't understand that I need them to understand. And so that's the approach I'm going to try and take but it's very similar, you know, a similar format for your newsletter problem, yeah,

Chris DuBois 39:28
insight the Yeah, seeing those one, the open rates, getting the replies. But then also with my sub stack, same thing, which one, which posts are resonating with people the most? Where am I getting comments? Where which ones are people liking? Has just given me a lot of insight into, like, Okay, what symptoms do they actually care about the most? Right? Now, let me create some more content around that on LinkedIn so that I can, you know, hopefully use that for for something.

Speaker 1 39:52
Can you give me? Can you frame the problem for me? I'm curious to to hear it. I want to, yeah, I'm sure the audience wants to hear the example as well. Well, because the work with Chris.

Chris DuBois 40:03
So the biggest problem that I think agencies say, or the agencies that I want to work with face, is referral, reliance, where. And I've worked with, I work with primarily agencies that are making less than a million because they're trying to figure out their positioning. And that's what I'm helping with dynamic agency OS is a positioning operating system. But I've also worked with agencies that are making over $2 million for their top line, right? One, two and a half, and they got there purely on referrals, and those referrals dried up. And now, what do you do with a two and a half million dollar agency that has no pipeline, right? Like it's just chaos, and so to get them out of this, you know, the feast and famine that everybody ends up being in at some point, it's like, well, we have to actually take control of your marketing and actually give you a position that you can stand behind that's very driven and in your niche. And so that's what we do with the dynamic agency. OS, is focus on one audience, one problem, one solution, market the hell out of that. And Yeah, everybody's been who's doing it has been pretty successful so far, but comes down to that problem of referral reliance. Yeah. So how's that showing up in your business? Could be tons of ways, right? It could be, yeah, we have no we go feast and famine like, month to month. If we got some referrals because someone happens to remember us when someone mentioned a problem they're having, like, awesome. We got them in the door. It could just be that, hey, the pipeline is completely run dry. And like, now we don't know what to do, and we're in panic mode. We're laying some people off, right? There's just, there's tons of ways this shows up. And, yeah, so that's the marketing. But So when I talk about those that some Hey, if you see if it could also be, hey, if your team takes 90 plus days to onboard Right? Like, it's probably because you're doing too many things within your business, which means you probably don't have a strong positioning statement, which means you probably got to where you are through happenstance and luck. And so I can, like, follow those breadcrumbs back to the problem and show them. And so

Speaker 1 41:58
I think niche content boosting would work well for you. Man, I think you've got it all. You just gotta click the button. I think if you need leads, I think you should. I think you could do it. It'd be so easy for you to do it on your own. There. You've got the people. I think I'll

Chris DuBois 42:15
try for this for a campaign, basically, like adding the timeframe on there for, hey, we're launching a cohort these dates like and that'll be the landing page that they go to. But same problem, it's just I got a little bit of an urgency for someone to book, because I'm, I'm starting with or without you on this date. Yeah, that could be fun, and I'll let you know how that

Speaker 1 42:37
Yeah. What insights, please. Yeah.

Chris DuBois 42:41
Well, Dylan, congratulations on being the first two time guest on the podcast. Yeah, I'm glad that you join. Where can people find you?

Speaker 1 42:53
You can find me sometimes on LinkedIn. I'm not on there as much as I used to. Now that avoided that, but I'm on LinkedIn, and you can send me a DM and say, Hello,

Chris DuBois 43:06
awesome. All right, man. Well, thanks for joining. Thank you for having me. That's the show everyone. You can leave a rating and review, or you can do something that benefits. You click the link in the show notes to subscribe to agency forward on sub stack, you'll get weekly content resources and links from around the internet to help you drive your agency forward. You.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai