Agency Forward

Chris DuBois 0:00
Hey, everyone, today I'm joined by McGill Davis. McGill is the co founder of rise, an automated time tracking platform built specifically for agency teams. Previously worked at Twitter and now helps agencies eliminate the pain of manual time tracking with AI powered automation and deep productivity insights, rise is already transforming our agencies. Lead Gen is the hardest part of running an agency. For most it's unpredictable, it's slow and it's usually expensive. Jia flips that. It's the all in one growth platform that turns your existing relationships and client work into a steady pipeline. Jia automates lead gen follow up and content, and it's all from the work you're already doing. You can check it out and get some free bonuses at get gia.ai/dynamic agency, and now McGill Davis, it's easier than ever to start an agency, but it's only getting harder to stand out and keep it alive. Join me as we explore the strategies agencies are using today to secure a better tomorrow. This is agency forward. Why do you think time tracking is important for agencies?

Macgill Davis 1:16
So yeah, that's a great question, and a lot of people don't time track. We can get into that. But basically, I'd say time Yeah, I mean, time tracking is how you understand exactly how you're utilizing your resources. It's like, it's probably one of the most important things to do. I would say, are you not just for agencies, but for, like, for all companies, and really, for, you know, everyone out there like it's really important to understand where you're spending your time, because that's where you're where you know where your effort is going and where you're going to see returns, if any, and if it's the right things or the wrong things. And I think it's particularly important for agencies if you're billing clients right. You really need to understand, first off, am I spending time on the right clients? Am I me? Am I even profitable on these clients? And are am I? Are they priced right? Without that information, I mean, that's just table stakes, I'd say like you, that's, that's how you run your company well. But if you do it well, there's all these additional benefits. Like, you can really understand who's How am I utilizing? How's the team utilizing their time? Who's available for this project? Maybe I should change things up. Like, basically, it's, it's your, you know, your view into how your company is

Chris DuBois 2:33
running, right? Yeah, I think every person, like, not even just like, business owner, every person at some point, and they're like, Man, where did that day go? Like, where it's like, imagine how much more you could have got done if you were just of where that time was with agencies. It's like, your inventory are your hours like, that is what you're selling, like, even if you package your offer differently, like, it's what you're limited by the I think the argument that a lot of agencies make is that they feel like they're micromanaging, and I've heard a lot of a lot of responses to that with a one agency owner just saying, like, Yeah, I'm micromanaging because this is our inventory. Like, I want to make sure we're not having theft within the company. Within the company, right? The same way someone taking a box of donuts off the shelf at the grocery store right to eat in the break room is charging your company something. But, yeah, I guess what's the with? I guess if most people are considering working using rise, they're already considering time tracking with that is there, like, an adoption issue that you see within the platform of people just getting their team to actually use it, because it's they're either not used to tracking time or, like, they don't believe in it? Like, are there certain concerns

Macgill Davis 3:57
that are coming up? So yeah, I mean, I think at an agency you need to, you really need to track your time like mostly you know for yourself, but also for clients. Understand billing, and even if you work on retainer, that's important. So what we see is, like most, you know, the only the if you're a smaller agency, let's say maybe you can get an idea of how things are running without contracting just because you have sort of the pulse, even though I would, again, I would argue on a bias that every, every, even individuals, should use time tracking. But with smaller agencies like they're those are the only agencies that aren't time tracking necessarily, when they come to rise once you reach a certain threshold of users, or of, you know, team members, like as a 1015 that's when you start feeling the pressure of like, okay, there's so much going on. We have so many clients, we have so many team members, so many projects. We don't understand how we're utilizing things. And then basically, any agencies above that size, they're already using a time. They already have some sort of time tracking in place when they come to rise. So for the smaller agencies, what we see is normally, like, we know we should time track, but like, it's just so terrible to do it. And like, it's because they most options out there are either manual or they're just not great experiences. And you know, rise, we're all automated. We're we're, you know, we use a bunch of cool AI features to automatically tag your time. So our goal is really to kill off manual time tracking and time sheets. And so, yeah, with the smaller agencies, they've generally been like, we know we should do it. We it's just too much work. And then with the larger agencies that we onboard, they're like, it's usually we do try jacking, have to, but everyone absolutely hates it. And like, either the, you know, the project leads or the CEO, depending on the size of the agency, are chasing people down constantly because manual time tracking absolutely sucks. You know, people either forget to put their hours in, or they, you know, they're not, either not you, they're not mainly starting and stopping timers. They leave a timer running. So it's like, oh, you know, Jim worked 48 hours for the last two days without stopping, but you know, actually just left the timer running. And then basically what happens is, at the end of the week, it's on the on these project leads or CEOs like, chase down everyone and remind them and be annoying, basically, to try and get the time track data, which is really necessary for them to run the business. And so, yeah, that's, you know, it really, it's just that, in both cases, manual time tracking absolutely sucks. We all probably know. And rise helps get rid of that pain point.

Chris DuBois 6:39
Yeah, we man, so when I was running an agency, it was so, like, I understood the importance of there was no, no real issue with it. I did think back for to my army days, and I was like, man, if we track time in the army, we would realize how much we're mismanaging the taxpayers dollars. Yeah, but even there, like I would, I would have times where it's like, I just can't I'm going from meeting to meeting. I don't have time to stop and track my time for where it's going. And so I'd start penciling things in, and then I have to go, you know, the end of the day or end of the week, add everything. And at some point my our financial, like, head of finances would reach out to me, being like, hey, so you put 48 hours on this one task on Tuesday? No, I'm at 48 minutes. The fact that we have to go through and, like, change, you know, all these different things, it's like, yeah, it is.

Macgill Davis 7:30
It is a pain. And if, and if we add up the time on admin spent on manual time dragging, if we time track that it would, it would be, like, honestly, probably hours per user, just trying to understand time per week. Yeah,

Chris DuBois 7:44
it pays for for the use of a good platform automated look at people like you just got your incentive right there. Yeah, let's talk billable versus non billable hours. And just because I've had, I have had some clients even say I should only be tracking billable hours, because that's what the client cares about, and so I but then you're, you're still not tracking everything you could get for output and actual, like, true capacity with team members. How do you kind of manage that, or whether it's managing expectations, or the actual, like, tracking of everything?

Macgill Davis 8:15
I mean, I think it's, it's so important to have that whole picture, because, again, you're not understanding, then how you're utilizing your time. Because if you're working on a client, even if it's non billable hours, right, that's time you're allocated to that client, right? So those are essentially free hours that that client is getting, right, or, or if you're working on non billable hours. That's just admin work. That's super important to know too, because that's that's a huge opportunity to like, improve efficiency at your agency. Are you spending enough time on the right things? Right and so, yeah, basically, you know tracking for specifically for client hours, is really important. It's actually funny, when we first started building in a lot of the automatic time tracking for clients and teams, we actually just focused on client time. That's what we thought. And then, like, all the feedback we were getting from our users, and you know, was basically, this is not the whole picture. And like there, we really need to include both billable time and also just general time tracked towards the team, to the agency, to really understand, like, what's, what's the whole picture here, I would say, like, the billable hours are always nice to track and like we, you know, we've had, we focused on that as that's a big part of rise, Because we also make it really nice. You can export your all like your data, and rise is this beautiful PDF that looks really cool. It's got black background colors and stuff and the detailed descriptions that are generated by AI and our like, I would say that is what a lot of our agencies love, because and. Like, especially small or even individual freelancers, because it makes you look so good when you send that to a client. This is like, wow, they are super on top of their time. Like, look at this detailed, really beautiful exported PDF. It just, it gives off the impression to the client that you're, you know, a serious, a serious agency, that exactly that you care, and then also that you're not just making up numbers, right? Yeah, we've all worked with, like, lawyers or agencies or something, and you get the bill, and you're like, it's like, you know, I wonder what's in here. I see the time total, the amount, but I like, what? Yeah,

Chris DuBois 10:42
yeah. Yeah, I think the even just from a planning perspective, the like, I've had to go through this with some clients where it's like, like, yeah, for if I bring on a new team member, you know, it gives us 40 hours of work. For clients, it's like, not really, because you also have, like, one hour every Monday, you're doing a meeting right for with your entire team. So we're down to 39 just from that, your team is actually having a 30 minute meeting for a lot of their biggest, bigger accounts here on top of this. And so it's like, when we start stacking all those like you might only have, like potential, you know, 32 hours, you're getting four work days from that team member, and you're not going to see it unless you're actually tracking all of these things. I want to, want to get into the the actual, like automation side of risers. I think that is one of like the differentiators. Yeah, yeah. Can you just give me like, a once over so we can go deeper?

Macgill Davis 11:35
Yeah? I mean, so I when we rise is an automated time tracker for Mac OS and Windows. So what we do is we really granularly track your activity on the computer, and then we basically feed that into the algorithm that's processed on our end, and then we basically generate, you know, a bunch of really cool data. So like we will, we'll generate some productivity inside circle, but the main things will also pull out when you were working on what you were working on, and will essentially generate these like draft versions of what we what you think you were doing, will create suggestions for clients, projects and tasks that you have, either in the app or that you've integrated with, so that at the end of the day, your entire day is like, is visible, track, automatically, automatically annotated and automatically tagged with client, project work. And all that you have to do is go through and approve, like, you know, all these suggestions, essentially. And that works great for teams, because, you know, you'll have your entire day already laid out. You'll never have to track anything. You'll never have to remember anything. And the AI is getting so good that most of the time, like a lot of time that it's already fully categorized and tagged. We generate descriptions on what you worked on. Automatically split up the chunks so it's, it's really cool, I mean. And basically from there, it just takes out, like, from what would have been this horrible process of things to think about. It kind of removes all that pain, and it's really on you to just sort of approve things. How it takes less than a minute at the at the end of the day, and it's great, because then we you know, you have the approvals on you so your track data, and all your team members track data, it remains completely private to them and yourself. It's just you choose what you tag and share with the team. So it's like that nice balance of being fully automated but also super privacy first, like this is not an employee monitoring tool by any means. And yeah, I It reminds me a lot. I would equate it a lot to taking meeting notes like everyone now uses one of these note takers in these meetings, like it's as many people as note takers these days, because it's just a better experience. You don't have to think about taking notes. You automatically get it to get the recordings. I think that's what we've done with time tracking, is you just open it, you let it run. It does its thing, you work which you should be doing, focus on that, and then you get all your fully tracked and tagged a time at the end of the day,

Chris DuBois 14:04
right? Yeah. So at the end of the day, I'll be able to differentiate from when I was using chat GPT for, like, client work, versus looking at recipes to impress my wife, exactly.

Macgill Davis 14:15
Oh, yeah. And so we'll do that for you. Actually, we'll pull that out and you can, we'll like, exactly you can, actually, you can just review that. We'll be able to. It's pretty cool, because based on that, you know, the activity we can, we can basically spot and segment different tasks and the things you're working on, and then you get these great, readable descriptions, like doing data code review and, you know, a nice little write up, or, you know, was on Airbnb searching for this. And you're like, Okay, let's not work. Yeah, don't look

Chris DuBois 14:40
at that, right? Yeah, on Indeed, looking for a new job.

Macgill Davis 14:47
Yeah, exactly.

Chris DuBois 14:50
And then I guess, with them, within this automation stuff, can it also narrow down, like the client that we're doing this type of work for, so that we can, like, one of the things. We looked at was like per per client and project. How much were we actually billing for various tasks? Yep, I guess. How granular do you get?

Macgill Davis 15:08
Very granular. So like, first off, we tracked down to 15, as small as 15 seconds, right? And then from there we, you know, commence those into like chunks of activity. They almost look like calendar events on in rise, but, but the data is super granular, so what we do is we'll splice that up on our end, using our code and our algorithms, and essentially, within rise, you can have clients, projects and tasks. So we integrate with Zapier, so a lot of people pull in clients from, you know, whatever platform they're using, like, you name, it basically like a linear clickup, whatever. We also directly integrate with clickup and linear so you can pull in those tasks, and then when you and then basically the rise AI has access to all of those projects, clients and tasks within rise, so it will automatically recommend what we call like task, task, client or project suggestions to all of your data. And additionally, you can even set up rules in rise, so you can be like, if I'm on this URL, I'm working on this client, and that helps the rise, AI know and associate those things. You don't have to do that. It's actually pretty good, even without that. But you can, you want to get in and customize and get it even more advanced, you can do it that way, and then it will automatically tag time towards those client projects and tasks, which is really cool,

Chris DuBois 16:29
yeah. And the, I mean, just going back to the admin time, right? The Yeah, like, I spend a significant amount of time just, just being like, Okay, where did I spend all my time today? So the ability to go through that and not have to deal with it, like just on its own, is crazy valuable for agencies.

Macgill Davis 16:48
Yeah, yeah. And, like, clickup is a big we have a lot of users who come in from clickup because clickup. So that's where we were agency space, yeah. And there's time tracking in clickup, but it's manual. You have to start and stop the timer. So rise works super well with that, because we you integrate rise with clickup, everyone on your team can use rise. They'll have their clickup tasks listed in rise, and then when rise AI auto tags time to a task. Once it's approved and linked to a clickup task, it will get posted back to clickup into the timesheets there. So you have, like this, two way sync between rise and click up. So you can still use clickup For all your tasks. When you generate a task, it syncs to rise, tag time to rise, syncs back to clickup, and it works really well. We also do that for linear, which is another task tracker, and we're adding a bunch more too, and but we have Zapier. So basically, with Zapier and a direct API, you can pretty much connect any of your existing platforms,

Chris DuBois 17:44
yeah? So I think this is the, like, just a demo of your product. Is what teams need in order to, like, to not have resentment around time tracking, where it's like, you say time tracking, right? People just cringe a little like, and not, yeah. Like an agent, most agency owners be like, Yeah, we need it. Like most team members like, like, yeah. I had a developer who hated it so much that he tied all of his time tracking to a stream deck so he could just push buttons on his stream deck and it would do whatever he needed and click up, yeah, but yes, we can't all code like that. Yeah, exactly. So I guess Yeah. Do you? And maybe this is a symbol, is like, giving people a trial of rise, like, but how do you, like, get the team to see, like, Oh, hey, this is actually easy in order to promote adoption of time tracking across the agency. Because I know every agency owner is thinking through that, right? Like, how do I get my team to want this? But you, the way you've just explained this is, like, the reason they should want this,

Macgill Davis 18:44
yeah, but honestly, we don't have too much pushback there, because, no, I have yet to meet someone that's like, oh, we figured out time tracking. It's working great. We have no complaints, you know. We don't like we love it. We love I love vlogging. I love logging my time, you know, and so we don't really have push back there. The one area where team members, where you get questions from team members, is, like, is this an employee monitoring tool? And like, rise is 100% not an employee monitoring tool. Like we we're just not interested in going down that path. There are a bunch of products out there that monitor employees behavior that takes screenshots, but we never do that. We never take screenshots. We actually never even track the content of the window. It's just metadata of the window. So like and we only share things with the team like that. You've approved them already. So that was one of the biggest like, I would say product challenges is finding that balance of automation and and also, like, we don't want to share everything that you're working on immediately, but I think we've, yeah, we've been able to figure that out. And generally, team members are really happy it saves, it's like, I mean, it saves them a ton of time, a ton of hassle, yeah.

Chris DuBois 19:58
And. Yeah, yeah. So I guess, what are you seeing, as far as, like, improvements across teams, so far with just, like, switching to rise, having, having the automation so they don't need to focus on that, is it just that they're getting a time benefit, or because they have, they're not thinking about this, or owners are reporting back, like, other positive? Yeah.

Macgill Davis 20:20
I mean, I think the again debate, the base and immediate response is like, people have to worry about it. People get a ton of time back every day, like two to three hours, probably at least per week. And then the CEO or product managers, they get two three hours and a lot of stress of chasing people down. That's sort of like, I would say what everybody gets worried away is save time and improve efficiency. I think what's cool, and these are areas that we're actually working on, building more features, and it's kind of exciting, is what, how do you take that to the next step? So, like, now we have accurate time tracking data that is basically, you know, immediate, right within, within the last day or hours at least. So how, as an agency owner, can, can you look at that and better, you know, better run your team like a big thing is, okay, wow, I was spending time on the wrong clients. Like I was spending 6% of my time on a client that pays me 1% of this other client when we really need to mix it up. Or, you know, I had, I had our most senior, most expensive developer working on this, like, these medial tasks when I we really should have, like, the young intern working on those, you know, like, really, because, like, then you understand your resources. How can you better resource them? The other thing is utilization. It's like client comes in, who has time, who like, right? Who's not working on a project right now? Or what, what we're like, you know, you can see, okay, well, Jane, she's 80% working on client a, but we know that client A's projects is going to end soon. So this would be perfect, right? So then you get much better utilization of, okay, getting people on the right, on the right projects, right? I think the only the other thing too, and this is more on the productivity sense, like and manage it understand, like, when it's time to like, basically, people are being overworked, you know, like, that's definitely been another one where it's like, all right, these, these people are working way too much. We need to make sure that we actually scale it back. And that's super common at agencies where there's always that one, you know, product manager, designer, ever a few that are just like on every project and putting in so many hours, and it's hard to see that, otherwise they'll burn out and they'll leave the team, if you don't you know, right?

Chris DuBois 22:42
The Yes, something had, or someone had, mentioned this at some conference I was at, where it's like, if the data is bad, the team stops going to look at that data, right? They just, they know. And so happens a lot with like, CRMs, where I know if the sales team isn't updating the CRM I'm not going to go there to look at what's happening. Yeah. And then everyone stops using the tool. And so with time drag, it's like the they time track regardless, but as soon as an agency owner, or like the head of ops, like whoever's managing this stuff, knows the data isn't great, they're going to stop using it in all their decisions. But exactly the reason you're putting off a lot of decisions is because you don't have the data right now, right? It's not because, yeah, I would just need another week to feel this one out. It's like, no, if you had all the information, right now, you can make a decision, but the data is bad, and so you can't actually decide. And so I like that this, this is now a tool that you can use that with, like, I have the data at my fingertips to be able to make actual decisions for the company. Yeah, one of the things that so can you, I'm assuming you can also do like kind of trend reporting for like, a team member. So if I know, for this type of task, my designer usually takes this long, but we've been overworked lately, and now we're actually seeing, like it's instead of four hours taking them six hours to complete this. But that could also just mean there's some variable within this project that is causing this friction. And so if you catch that by seeing this trend changing, it's like, now we can actually get this information from the client earlier, or we can not promise these things, and so you just become more efficient over time. Yeah, yeah, it's great. I don't know. There's no question there. It was just like, yeah, these are all the positive things I'm seeing.

Macgill Davis 24:25
Yeah, definitely, yeah. So

Chris DuBois 24:29
I guess if you Oh, man, this is all like, time tracking is such a I don't wanna say controversial, because it's like, it's really not controversial. I guess, like, yeah, it's like saying air is bad, right? Like, no, it's not. Nobody's debating that. Like, we know we need time tracking, but there is this, like, stigma, I guess, around it, and so like to be able to say, hey, look, there's potentially a better way to just handle this. And. I think will will empower a lot more agency owners to just get their team move in the right direction, and especially when you moving forward like there's it's harder and getting harder and harder to differentiate your agency, and so be able to collect whatever information you have to find your edge, I think, like grounded in your data, I think is going to be a huge thing that a lot of agencies can benefit from. But I guess along with time tracking, like, what? What else would you recommend agencies be doing, like, either, like, in addition to the time tracking or just to replace some of these, like, outdated processes, right? Like times like you're doing with time sheets, yeah, yeah. What are some of those things you would recommend? I mean,

Macgill Davis 25:45
I think, I think this is on top of mind, again, for agencies and a lot of companies. I know we're thinking about it is like, you know, we are in the midst of a massive change of how people work with with the AI tools. It's, I don't think it's actually going to eliminate many jobs. It's just going to change jobs. Like, I think the, you know, it's hard, it's hard to say exactly how it's going to roll out. But like, things are changing, and they're changing quickly. The whole way that teams work and that individuals work, I think is going to change where, you know, it's, I think you're seeing that where it used to be you were an individual who just worked on one task. Now it's kind of like you are an individual who's running an army of agents. So almost every team member is becoming like a manager in some ways. And so that's a massive shift, right? And so because of being managing means you're dealing with context switching. You're dealing with a lot of, like, multiple processes, even as as like an I even as an I see, let's individual contributor, right? And so I think we're still very much in the middle of this. It's, I think it's as big as the internet, right? And so I don't know how that's going to shake out, but it's, I think first thing is being obviously get informed like you want to understand, that's my rise plug, I guess. But I think also being really open to trying new things, like trying making, you know, trying, trying a lot of these new tools, trying new processes, seeing what works, really trusting in autonomy, right? So that people can make these decisions and and like, Go individuals can go out and try and figure out what works for them. Because I think it's gonna it's just like the internet. When we have this massive shift, you have people who and agencies who adapt, and they're going to be twice as successful, right? Or 10 times more successful. And once you fail, it actually, then, you know, fall behind. And so I kind of think while we're in this middle period, it's like, it's about being super agile, super flexible, and kind of really quickly reactive, like trying new things, changing things that don't work, trying changing. I think that's going to be really important because, yeah, it's like you're seeing it in agencies across the board. I mean, a great example is like, yeah, yeah, if you have a design agency that, using AI tools, can service three times more clients, they have more capital, they have more time. Their their team members are better trained on the tools, so they each Can't they have output. And that just compounds, right? And then suddenly you have a whole new set of winners in the space. So, yeah, awesome, yeah.

Chris DuBois 28:26
All right. So I got two more questions for you. Yeah, with the first one, in what book do you recommend every agency owner should read?

Macgill Davis 28:33
All right, so this one, I think this is a little bit of a maybe a different direction than what we're talking about, but I think it's really important. It's called the Culture Map by Aaron Myers. So the Culture Map is this book that I read when I was worked at Twitter a few years ago. Was like one of the books that we all but it was recommended for the whole company, and it was really fascinating because it was written by this woman, Aaron Myers. She's American, living in France, at Paris, I think it basically breaks down how people and cultures communicate and work differently across the board, and how what's polite in one culture, what's good communication another culture is the complete opposite in in another culture, like there can both be trying polite, and they're both extremely offending each other. And it was fascinating for me because we read it because I'd say, the week the world is becoming so international agencies are like at the forefront of that. I'd say, I mean, if any companies that are more likely to have people all over, it's agencies, clients all over, it's agencies. And so I think it will dramatically change the way that I see and communicate with people you know, especially because you're now, it's a we live with a global world, global economy, and so I think, and I think that a lot of us, like we I used to think like, there's one way to be a good community communicator, right? But that's because I have this American culture, and in American culture, there is one way. But globally, that's really not the case. And so it's a great book. It's super readable. I mean, it really, really helped me, especially working with, you know, international clients, international teams, and even with, like, international family members and friends. It's really, really, really, really interesting. So yeah, highly recommend that.

Chris DuBois 30:18
Yeah, I actually want to follow this one for a second now, because I just finished interviewing Jack Porter Smith, who's he was an agency owner out in the UK, and in we started talking about, like, company culture and just and kind of realized through this conversation, the culture at you set within your organization is also one of those, like, it's a competitive advantage in a lot of ways. It is like, because how you show up is going to attract the right talent. It's going to attract the clients you want to work with. And so even understanding how cultures work and how they think differently is like, well, what type of culture would I want to build here? Because as we move into a state of, you know, like, techno parity, where Yeah, some some competitor can come in and try copying some of your your technology, like the next week, and they can do your process and have your model say the same things. The thing that will have you actually stand out is your culture. And so if you can craft your point of view around that, your perspective, and put that up to the world, I think you've, you've got a complete edge, awesome.

Macgill Davis 31:21
It's funny. That was one that just brings to my like, one other aspect I was thinking about when, when you mentioned, like, what should be on top of mind of agencies as well? I like, I that was another thing that I think is going to be really important, is, like, is exactly this, like you, you know, your personal relationships, I think, and the way that you deal with customers, and, like the, obviously, the work output is still the most important, but that's going to be, I think, increasingly valuable, right? In a world where you have a lot of AI tools that can do a lot of different stuff, you know? And that is culture as well, right? That's exactly that, like the culture, that of the it's really, really important as well. Yeah. So, yeah,

Chris DuBois 32:05
awesome. All right. Last question is, where can people find you?

Macgill Davis 32:10
So, yeah, it's rise, R, I, Z, e.io, so it's not the correct spelling, but the best spelling, that's what we say. And yeah, my name is McGill. You can find me on Twitter or LinkedIn or, you know, at, basically McGill, M, A, C, G, I, L, at, R, i z.io, yeah, we're looking, you know, we are looking for agent more agencies to onboard and to rise as we get more every day. And yeah, if you have questions or you want chat, yeah, super open

Chris DuBois 32:46
to it. Awesome. McGill, thanks for joining.

Macgill Davis 32:49
Yeah, Chris, thank you so much. I'm really, really, really grateful to be here.

Chris DuBois 32:57
That's the show everyone. You can leave a rating and review, or you can do something that benefits. You click the link in the show notes to subscribe to agency forward on substack, you'll get weekly content resources and links from around the internet to help you drive your agency forward. You.

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